Hallo, Salme! I miss you too.
It felt more appropriate to continue that conversation in this venue, but I’d been meaning to open a thread here with you for some time anyway!
Are you well?
Hallo, Salme! I miss you too.
It felt more appropriate to continue that conversation in this venue, but I’d been meaning to open a thread here with you for some time anyway!
Are you well?
Oh! Yeah, I’m doing pretty well! Actually really well? Figured a couple things out about myself and feeling pretty good about it, all told. Some of the others are having a harder time than me. I wish very much that I could do something to help them, but I can only love them and be there. So I’m working on my patience, I guess?
Anyway, in things I’m impatient about, I have not figured out shit and/or fuck about the larger questions involving our reality. Have a few more questions though. Here’s one. We told you about the Architect and the Omniclast, right? The Architect is watched by the Stillness, the Omniclast by the Song (or so the Architect told Luĉja) but … I think they’re each too much of the Stillness or the Song respectively. The Song without the Stillness becomes destruction. What does the Stillness become without the Song? How are they failing, here?
Shit forgot to add—how are you? Are things still stable? Did you get to go to Tulinsuojat yet?
By which I meant properly explore, you obviously were there.
How is it doing? The island, I mean.
Oh, that’s a good question. I’ve been reading through the Library in between everything else and there’s some truly fascinating information made available to me and I have some more thoughts, in light of what I’ve read, I think.
If the Song without the Stillness is destruction, my guess is that the Stillness without the Song is…
…the thing that frustrated me about the Academy, when I was young, the thing that drives people to go build their own small towers far enough away that you need to contract a good Glass-Ship to get visitors. You get beauty without breathing; you get an institution that– well. That’s so averse to another Septentrione expedition that a thoughtstorm starts in the middle of the debate. This is a very Samudran thing to say and I recognise that but I think that if the Song is water, then the Stillness must be ice; I can imagine a Samudra overtaken by storms, and I can also imagine a Samudra that’s frozen over like the north. (Certainly, I hope neither of these come to pass! But to illustrate my point.)
If our three worlds are each an illustration of an extreme, why not the Architect and Omniclast as well? It sounds from your descriptions of the Sanctuary that it was a profoundly stultifying and unnatural place, and that’s from someone who’s spent the last several days in endless Circle meetings…
Also, the island is well! I haven’t had the chance to go out that way and see it again, but I’m very much looking forward to it. I feel at peace, there, and it reminds me of you all.
Perhaps, and tell me if this makes sense, but—inasmuch as the Song, at its best, is change and life, it is also destruction. If the Stillness is stability and safety, it is also stagnation. And yeah, I would say the Architect and Omniclast are those aspects driven to their extremes. I think they even both know it and might even want to change it.
Anyway, it sounds the Academy is still a stultifying and unnatural place. Sorry about the meetings.
Oh. I did get a chance to go back to Almachadta, just briefly. The process of its destruction is continuing, but not … it’s continuing, but not at such a breakneck pace that I had to be concerned about it disappearing while I was in Samudra. I thought that might be something you’d like to know.
I’m thinking about… how fire is intrinsic to life, but fire also requires consumption of fuel. I’m not sure you can have one without the other.
The meetings are the meetings; I’m just glad I can keep the Academy on an even keel.
I’m glad to hear that, about Almachadta. I have the Academy studying the gate, and ways to condense Pellucid gnosis into a way that you might transport to your world. We certainly have enough of it here.
In that metaphor about fire, would you say that … the Stillness functions as the fuel of life? And then … I wonder if you would eventually come to hate the fire, if it could only consume you?
I mean I’m glad of that too, but. Well. Sometimes I feel a little bad, that we’re out here having adventures and you’re there. I know it’s necessary, and an adventure can sometimes be an awful thing, but. Well. I don’t know. I never want you to feel left behind.
Oh, thank you for that. I’m wondering how we might use the gates, or some mechanism, to fix what is killing us all. I will be curious, once we get to the Beast, if there is some solution. I suspect there won’t be until we visit Valaïs and Mu as well, though.
I imagine firewood has some opinions concerning fireplaces that may not be aligned with the purpose to which it’s been set. Trying to imagine if firewood were sentient and- that’s a horrifying thought I don’t much enjoy thinking. I suspect, however, that you might be right.
I don’t feel left behind at all, Salme; I’m doing important work here, and you’re doing important work there, and we’ll meet again in the middle some day and give each other a hug, and show each other the work that we’ve done, and that day will be glorious.
I’ll admit there’s a part of me that’s hoping against hope that there’s some simple answer that’ll be apparent upon understanding the structures and mechanics of our three worlds, but I acknowledge that that’s a foolish hope. Still and all, I want to be prepared, if there’s anything Samudra can do for either Almachadta, or the Beast, so we’ll keep plugging away at the problem over here while you do field work!
Well is it really that horrifying of a thought? Isn’t that the nature of all life? We persist through the destruction of other living things. I can’t imagine the fish or the tomato particularly enjoys its experience either. Though I suppose you could say they’re spared the full, terrible existential knowledge of what it means to be hunted.
I don’t mean that as a moral judgment, simply a statement of what is.
I’m glad you don’t feel left behind. I forget that not everyone is as—hm. Driven to the specific forms of action as I am?
I think any preparation is valuable. Thank you, for holding that hope, Caion.
Well, I think the difference is that– I’m as confident as I can be that a tomato doesn’t have experiences. I am less confident as concerns fish. There are many people on Samudra who avoid eating animals altogether, on account of those concerns. I’m not one of them, but I can comprehend their hesitation. As for myself, I have no qualms with taking life, in principle, to sustain my own. But– there’s a reason I specified ‘if firewood were sentient’.
Even though their existences and experiences are wildly different from mine, I– could not imagine eating a noöplankton, in a world in which they seemed edible enough in the first place to draw the suggestion. Similarly, I remember you mentioning in your world trees that walked and spoke and thought and felt – one of them has access to this medium, as I understand it, and I’ve been hoping to see them here. One would not burn a tree like that for firewood, am I correct?
Moral quandaries aside: It’s a pleasure to hear from you, my friend, and I’m glad to be holding that hope for you. Be well in your travels.
Ah, so I was coming at it from a slightly different angle. I was thinking about it from the perspective of the thing that was being consumed and … well. I suppose what I was thinking was that we might very well be the sentient firewood for some great creature, if Wolf’s theory holds true. And that creature using us for sustenance … I don’t know if I could claim it was somehow monstrous for doing so? I’d try to stop it, of course. I’d maybe even hate it. But. I don’t know. I suppose I found it a useful thought more than a horrifying one?
Anyway, from the perspective of the consumer, I certainly agree that sentience is the line that makes eating a fish acceptable and noöplankton not. But also I think … different people draw that line in different places as well?
Ha. I hope it’s still good to hear from me. Apologies if my misunderstanding you hurt; I was just caught in my own bizarre thought experiment.
I’ve been having some of the same thoughts, too. I shudder to imagine what would see us as prey. I shudder to imagine what sort of thing would burn a living mind as firewood. And why. But I suppose that is, in its own way, a rather blinkered way of looking at things, isn’t it? That’s a fear I’m running from, not towards with curiosity. Thank you, once again, my friend, for your Counsel.
In any event, bizarre thought experiments are for getting caught in and exploring to their utmost! Never apologise for that. I’m just not a person dispositionally inclined NOT to, myself, engage in them. Particularly when I’m glancing at my tomestone towards the end of a frustrating day only to see a message from a dear friend whom I miss.
Well I don’t necessarily think it’s a blinkered way at looking at it, really. I think it presumes intent, and that something like that would find value in sentience. It certainly would be something on a scale so enormous it would be—awesome, and something that would be incredibly difficult to understand? Or at least, that’s how I see it?
Oh, well, you’re always welcome to engage in whatever I throw out there. Just realized it was probably kind of confusing. More misunderstandings happen over text than when face to face, I think. Or maybe that’s a me thing.
Right, I suppose what I’m saying is that I’m struggling to imagine being someone or something that did not value sentience, which is… a failure of imagination on my part, in the strictest possible sense. I suppose you’re correct in that something like that would be definitionally difficult for us to understand or imagine, though, so I ought to have leniency for myself in this regard!
A misunderstanding between fellow-Scholars is simply an opportunity for clarity and mutual counsel! Or so I keep telling myself…
Yeah Caion I really think you deserve to give yourself some leniency here! I think a lot of this stuff is really hard to truly understand anyway. I’m still. So I partially asked you about the Architect and the Omniclast because when I was in the void I reached out to the Omniclast. The thing is, when we met him I immediately liked him, and I don’t always much trust myself when I immediately like a godlike being. But … and I need to tell this to Ksenija, actually, but I had been thinking about what her name means, the willingness to love a stranger. And he was introduced as “A Stranger” so I thought … hm.
I thought I should try to enact this thing I’d seen her do with Melpomene, something that I’d admired so much. And I was hoping for some clarity on trusting my own instincts. And I was right to like him? He’s … hm. I was right to like him.
But then I realized I absolutely couldn’t understand the Architect in the same way? Even if I concede that our goals might not entirely be misaligned, I couldn’t see what was likeable about him, or admirable. I think … I think I have a better idea now, so thank you.
New question, hopefully a fun one: when Archie does something that … makes you just overwhelmed with how much he loves you or you love him, do you just … tell him? Does it ever embarrass him or annoy him? Does he get tired of hearing it?
I’m very glad to hear that I helped you sort your thoughts out in some way! It’s given me some things to think about as well.
As for your question, it certainly made me smile. I’ve always had a tendency to be effusive with my praise, particularly where he’s concerned. Whisker-Clan tendencies run towards wearing their heart on their sleeve, all things considered, and I took after my adoptive family in that regard for certain.
I knew I loved him– it did not take me long to know it, and it did not take him long to know once I knew. If he ever gets tired of hearing it, he hasn’t indicated as such to me. I don’t think people get tired, in general, of knowing that they are loved. In Archie’s case I think– when we arrived at the Academy he threw himself into his studies and into being Of The Academy, while I had a bout of homesickness that largely manifested as wanting to spend every moment that I could in his presence. I think if my effusiveness was ever going to be a problem, it would have been at that time? But he was kind and gentle with me, and made sure that we had time together, and dragged me yowling and flailing to a number of Academy events he was, correctly, sure that I would enjoy and even make friends at.
I think it may have embarrassed him once or twice? But if it did, it never rose to the level of being a problem rather than being foolishly charming, or if he did, it was a problem he solved on his own behind my back, which would be very much like him to do but in this instance I feel was probably an appropriate course of action.
I … am not someone used to wearing their heart on their sleeve. Or, perhaps I was when I was very young? I am effusive though. I suspect you know this.
I think. I’ve been thinking. You know them both, obviously, and Awa himself is deeply effusive. That is reassuring and … I enjoy it, very much. Aurelius is—not effusive in the same way? He can be quiet and reserved. He shows his care through his actions, not his words, though he will use words for me. And I realized, quite recently, that I had been. Every time I wasn’t constantly hearing him say that, I’d turn on myself, tell me he was tolerating me at best.
Caion, that has never once been true. Even before we were together, he was never—he was never like that. And I feel very foolish to have not been able to listen to what he was telling me for so long. I’m listening now, though, and it’s … overwhelming. It is so much, and it is lovely, and wonderful, and I never know if I should immediately launch into telling him over, and over again, or if I should have some decorum about it. Awa I know never tires of such things. Aury is … well. I guess he keeps telling me to just keep being myself, and this, too, is part of myself.
When you are a person who relies very heavily on words and stories and someone isn’t talking to you in your language, even if they are talking to you in theirs, it’s going to be hard to understand what they’re saying. But you can learn, and you are learning! I didn’t struggle in the same ways, but especially when we were younger, Archie also expressed his love through actions more easily than through words, and it did throw me for a loop. Your relationships with both of them are still new; give yourself time to learn him as he’s, I’m sure, given himself time to learn you.
All of which said - let him know that he’s understood, now, when you get the chance. Let him know that he’s loved. Don’t bank your flame unless he asks you to - I can imagine someone getting overwhelmed by the reaction to such a revelation! I don’t know if Aurelius is that kind of person, but I can imagine it - but only if it’s actually a need he has.
I’m so happy to hear things are going well for you, my friend.
Did you know that when we first got here … oh. How much do you know about the weird metaphysics surrounding Aurelius? You met Jorule, right? You must at least know something?
I want to … get your take on something, but it requires several explanations to get to the actual concern.
Jorule explained some of the context to me while we were working on the tomestones together. He seems quite lovely? Not the first eccentric Scholar I’ve collaborated with, surely won’t be the last.
I know he’s a visitor from another world even further-out than the rest of you. I’ve gleaned a few things from reading through what’s available in the Library.
Go ahead - if you lose me somewhere, I can ask for an explanation.
I’d recommend reading this in a Bubble, probably.
Before anything else, there was a man from the Beast named Annarr. I can’t tell you much about him because I never met him. By the time the Architect ripped us out of our homes, there was something … he was gone, I think. Jorule saw that he was somehow empty, and decided to occupy his body. That sounds more crass than I think it was. It was an act of care, I think. I’m also not sure how much we were ever supposed to know.
That strange union made Aurelius. I think, very early on, he was a lot of Jorule with these instinctual flashes of Annarr. I think, as time has moved on, Aurelius has become very much his own person. It is. Very complicated. Jorule and Aurelius are different people, and they are also the same person. Both things are true. I prefer to focus on the first truth, but I do know the second.
Prior to arriving on the Beast, we—I had asked Aurelius a bit about Annarr, but he didn’t know much either. Memories of the Beast were readily available. Annarr’s memories were rather opaque. However, when we arrived here he discovered that memories aside, Annarr’s emotions were rather present. He’s been. Struggling with that.
I explain all this because when you say: “All of which said - let him know that he’s understood, now, when you get the chance. Let him know that he’s loved. Don’t bank your flame unless he asks you to - I can imagine someone getting overwhelmed by the reaction to such a revelation!” I immediately want to tell him so. But I know even if that would be a good thing to hear, he has enough on his mind right now. Still, my instinct is to immediately tell him so.
How long should I wait? How do I choose my moment? He loves me for who I am, but I think at this precise moment having some restraint is the right choice.
It’s interesting, because from my perspective as someone who has known and been close with any number of Pearls, everything you’re saying just makes immediate intuitive sense to me. I can imagine it being monumentally disorienting if there’s nothing… like that that’s in play as a potential part of your life, or thing that could happen to someone, though.
We have a term - ‘recreance shock’ - for when something like that happens to a Pearl, when they coalesce after having been split and struggle to reorient their mind and memories in a unitary fashion. It’s… very serious, and hard to manage, and I wish him peaceful and swift coalescence. I wish I’d thought to provide some Samudran resources on the experience; I could not have imagined they would be necessary, although my impression is that you have the situation well in hand.
What mostly cures recreance shock is time. Time, and having a social context that’s consistent and supportive. And your love for him is part of that network of support! He can see who he is in your eyes. This was– it obviously wasn’t remotely the same but this was part of what I kept trying to be, for Synthesis. They weren’t experiencing recreance shock, but they were still struggling with their unitarity and identity, and having someone who they can rely on to be there day after day? Makes all the difference.
I know this doesn’t really answer your question, but this sort of thing has to be felt out step by step, day by day. What comforts him? What makes him the sharpest and brightest version of the self he chooses to be? You’re absolutely brilliant at that sort of encouragement, Salme, whether or not you realise it. I should know.
When you have a moment, would you be willing to send along any ‘recreance shock’ resources you might have to him? I think he will be fine, but I am not certain. Please do so in a private strand. Or I can forward them to him, if you would rather.
The thing is, Caion, that I do not know the answer to this. Everyone, everyone, tells me this. That I can encourage the best in people. That I know how to sharpen and comfort and aid and care, and I seem to be able to do it naturally with nearly everyone and I do not know with him. He does this for me constantly, every day, sometimes just by knowing he is there. I think that is at least part of why I’ve been so insecure. He only asks that I be myself and I am practicing doing so, but I want to do so much more.
The things that I know that he enjoys—the Rite, the esoteric, the challenge of craft—are not things I can give him. I know he likes to laugh, so I try to make him laugh. Part of the reason I worked so hard to make the burgers happen is I knew he likes when we are all together, safe and happy and joyful. He is a protector, he will give of himself easily and without question. He does not ever seem to want anything.
I can give him time, yes. I can give him my trust—something which I have been very poor at granting until recently—but I cannot seem to give him anything else.
Thus the quandary.
Hmm.
Having seen the two of you together, and (limitedly, but still) seen him apart from you, I think I’m still right to say that you anchor him in himself, that you help him be the version of himself that he most wishes to be, even if he’s been uncommunicative about what specific actions help anchor him. I think this is a communication problem, overlaid atop a practical problem which you and he have already solved without saying a word.
I could, of course, be wrong. But I think you’re selling yourself short again, or letting your frustrations at unstated inclarities get in the way.
When you say “He does this for me constantly, every day, sometimes just by knowing he is there.”, is it possible that you do the same for him, just by his knowing you are there?
Is he really that different when we’re apart? I can’t imagine he’d ever not be present if someone reached for him. In a crowd sometimes I fear he might float away, but I’m usually in the crowd with him. Sometimes I do spend less time by his side (him and Awa both) in crowds because I don’t want the others to think that I can only see my partners, or that they must always be looking at me. I would ask, maybe, but I’m worried it would be hard for them if I did.
As for the last thing … I’m not sure. Maybe? He rarely seeks me out. He told me once it was because I never gave him long enough to miss me. Sometimes I wish I could see him missing me, just so I know , but it’s not in my nature to let things go that long.
…I do think I understand what you mean by that. Archie is magnificent, and brilliant, and- tends to get absorbed in his work. When he was younger, particularly, and trying very hard to prove himself in the Academy, and I- felt, at the time, although not any more, like I needed him more than he needed me. I’m confident now that I was wrong in that belief, but it felt very vividly certain at the time.
Is he there for you, though, when you come to him? Does he make time for you? Does he smile? Let him show with his actions in response to you what he does not show proactively. Those count, too. And trust him, when he says that you matter to him. I had to trust Archie, and it was easy to, because it was him, but still hard to, but I’m so very glad that I did.
Also, try… to worry less about what the others will think? I think you’ve spent a lot of your life being worried about what everyone will think, but I know for a fact that Archie is overjoyed for the three of you, and perfectly capable of seeing you all as distinct persons, and I feel like I can confidently say that Luĉja and Wolf feel the same way. And as for onlookers that aren’t the three of them, they can… gnaw on horseradish root if they have a problem? Dry horseradish root that’s been in the cellar too long.
Anyways, I’ve watched his eyes track you when you walk into a room.
The thing is it’s almost the opposite for me? Both Aurelius and Sininen are willing to drop everything and focus on me whenever I ask and it makes me … uncomfortable. I’m not. Used to. That.
I was talking with a … friend … a little while ago, and they said I … had a thing. A hangup. About being useful to people. And I think I kind of. Do. And maybe that’s even why Aurelius isn’t terribly inclined to ask things of me? I do think I’m going to talk to him and ask if he’ll tell me … things he likes? Like, small things, the ones I don’t know? And make it clear it’s less about. Big gestures or gifts but it’s about … the small ways I’d like to be able to comfort him? Maybe that won’t go anywhere and he might not even know but. It might help?
I should ask Sininen too. He’s easier to read and he does actually articulate desires, but knowing more than “he likes coffee” or “azure is his favorite color” would be good, probably.
I am working on the trust. That is the one thing he has asked for. I … yes. I know I can do that better than I have been.
As for the rest of our group … it’s less that I’m worried that people won’t see us as distinct persons (I … do not think I will be mistaken for Awa anytime soon) and more that. People will think I’m not caring or doing enough, or doing it right? And … oh. I’m doing it again aren’t I? Holding myself to really silly standards.
So, I definitely have a thing about being Useful to people. I know that I do. I think, honestly, it might be part of why you and I immediately saw eye to eye, the way that we did, now that I think about it a little. And it’s not– a bad thing? Necessarily? Just something that can be dangerous if you’re not conscious of it.
One of the first things Archie ever said to me that– tilted the world to the side for me was that– we were doing research, working on some things, he had already decided on the Academy and was trying to prepare for entry, and so he was studying, and I was studying with him, and… he called me his lamp, and it- it sent a harpoon through me, Salme. So I think I get what you mean.
Anyways, I think it’s always a good idea to ask your partner about little things that they like! I’m kind of allergic to Grand Gestures but– Archie collected a bunch of samples the whole time he was on Almachadta, without even- remembering fully why he was doing it, so that he could give them to me when he returned. (They’re. FASCINATING, by the way. I desperately wish to visit your home.) And he knew that at that level because he’d asked me what little silly things he could do whilst away that’d make me smile when he returned.
And, yes. Yes, you are holding yourself to unreasonable standards, to which I am confident that nobody else, nobody who matters, is holding you. (Ask me how I know what that feels like…)
I was able to ask Aury, and I’ll be able to ask Awa. I think I am finding my way.
Why are you allergic to Grand Gestures? I … like them. Or the idea of them. Though even small gestures get me, so perhaps something sufficiently grand would kill me on the spot.
Also I … didn’t realize you struggled with being useful and holding yourself to unreasonable standards. That’s kind of a lot. (Ask me how I know).
Wanna know something funny? That friend I made by chatting on the Linkpearl? Turned out to be the fucking Scorpion Queen.
I’m not sure, honestly. I think it might be that in my heart of hearts I’m absolutely a Kushtaka? Grand Gestures tend to come with big loud emotions, whereas day to day affirmations and acts of love and care are less of a… it feels wrong to say that a Grand Gesture could ever be a ‘threat’ but that’s what it parses out as, to me, if I think about it hard enough. Now you’ve given me something to think about.
Also: Wait, what? What in the world happened? How did- Let me guess, Bird Shit? Was she pulling a fast one on you? Tell me everything, I’m a hopeless gossip!
Tell me if this sounds wrong, but is it because you’re already giving so much and big grand gestures make you feel like. It creates a demand you can’t possibly live up to? That’s just a guess. Tell me if I’m wrong.
All right. Do you want me to write it like a story or do you want the me screaming at myself version?
That might be correct. I’m not sure. It gives me a hypothesis to roll around and poke at, at any rate. I’ll have to think about it. I think, if nothing else, it’s in the vicinity of the truth. Is it that way for you, also?
I think the ‘you screaming at yourself’ version might be cathartic and I feel like there are precious few other people you could present that version of the narrative to, so I’m more than open to that medium of storytelling. Otherwise, I’ll leave it to your capable judgement!
Hm. The closest anyone’s ever come to a grand gesture was Sininen and his sparrow charm—before we were together, I’d gifted him some thread that matched his eyes, and in turn knotted it together and threaded it through a charm that signified … my version of the Sword-Saint but. Hm. That wasn’t. A grand gesture. I still almost died of … well. Want and delight but also embarrassment. So no. I don’t think it’s like me? (Separate post for the gossip because it gets dumb)
Oh! I’d noticed the sparrow charm and wondered if it had a story behind it. That’s really lovely.
Okay so. AG. angelsGuignol shows up and immediately starts heckling Jorule. So we know it’s bird shit, right? You’ve sniped at them a bit, but. We end up talking about … Light I don’t even remember. Baking at first? Other stuff? It’s scattered throughout the linkpearl, and then.
I don’t even know what I did. Zaya—Saranzaya, the Scorpion Queen’s right hand—read some of the public posts, and said I parried AG’s defenses? And I guess? But I start this private strand with AG and they were just. We were talking about doing hard time in the messy bitch mines and just. I can’t even remember where the term came from, but it was. It’s how I felt, sorting through all these feelings and thoughts I’ve been having since we got here?
And then they were. Caion, it is bugfuck wild to re-read this thread because it’s so obvious but. Like Jorule and I were trying to figure out who this person was, because Bird Shit, and like we knew the Scorpion Queen was also someone from Bird Shit history, but we didn’t make the connection? I don’t know why I just. Light.
And so. I tell her this story. This whole ass story about me being the Sword-Saint and why I became the Sword-Saint and what my relationship with the previous Sword-Saint was like. Like. It’s not … I think Aury and Awa and Wolf together know the whole thing, but like. I hadn’t laid it all out there as a narrative before. And she … I don’t know. Listens to the whole thing. And she’s … kind? Breaking it down, how I got hurt, what she thinks about it, and why it’s okay that I’m still messed up about it and … just. Stuff I needed to hear?
And she’s telling me about herself too, and it’s … I don’t know. She’s more optimistic than I am, somehow. I mean, that’s not really a high bar to clear, but I’m letting out some of the worst parts of myself at her and she’s accepting them? She gets it? Like not the … anxiety or the self-confidence issues, but like. The cynicism and the anger. The deeper parts I don’t. Didn’t realize were so. Present.
Anyway. We’re on the Beast, we’re trying to figure out how the Scorpion Queen knows some of the things she knows, and I’m talking to AG and they keep … they don’t know shit about Almachadta, but they seem to know a bit about the Beast? But I don’t know shit about the Beast, really so it doesn’t add up and it’s in private messages anyway and … whatever.
Then we meet her (as in the Scorpion Queen). And like. Her gaze lingers, for a moment, on me? And it’s like. Why. That’s when I was kinda suspicious. Because unless she was curious about whomst Aurelius was fucking, there’s no reason for her to be interested in me whatsoever.
Then she has this techne about being the best, which AG has this hole thing about. And it’s like. Hm.
And then. I was sitting on a line Jorule gave me from their past history, and she laughed? And kind of … explained? And it reminded me of AG?
And then. She fucking. Called me “babe” and AG’s the only person I’ve ever heard use that. And I was sure, but I didn’t … I wasn’t sure-sure.
Anyway, this was during a Rite, which we would’ve won—she was at her stress cap—but then she fucking pulled out a fucking. Card that was an auto-win? Like literally the Rite is “The Scorpion Queen Wins the Rite” and she. So Wolf is the one who kicked her ass, you’d have probably flipped your pancakes about it, it was super impressive, Archie helped, and then. Like.
I know. I know she’s AG. And I say I’m pretty sure I know her. And she says this line about the messy bitch mines. And.
I hug her? I don’t know. It’s … I thought I’d have to wait way longer? And just. This is my friend. Even if we hadn’t met before, she’s my friend and I love her and also she’s The Scorpion Queen of the Beast.
Anyway. We don’t get to talk. She has to go off and … I don’t know. Be weird and immortal and undefeated and shit. Oh and Archie challenged her to a cookoff, so that’ll be interesting.
So yeah. That’s how I made a new friend and she turned out to be the fucking Scorpion Queen. Caion. Caion what am I doing with my life.
I’m not upset really it’s just like. How did that happen it’s fucking ridiculous.
I’m not even mad at her? I knew she was keeping a secret. I just. The Scorpion Queen is my friend and we met remotely over the Linkpearl when I told her about my fucked-up past??
Like how is that even. A thing?
(I do like her a lot? She. Hm. Okay she kind of reminds me of you in some ways, but like. From the opposite angle? Like if you were you but inverted and … spiky? I think it’s the care and the … willingness to listen without judgment?)
It is! I gave him a bluejay (that’s what Sinitöyhtönärhi means) inscribed with my favorite memories of our journey in turn. That’s where I perfected the memory capture technique.
Oh, First Principles. It had slipped my mind that a corollary to that statement is that I’ve now sassed the Scorpion Queen via interplanar messaging device. I suppose we’ll have to invent new diplomatic protocols?
Goodness, that’s a story. Thank you for sharing it! It sounds like what you are doing with your life is making friends with people because it never occurs to you to be afraid of or weird about them? That’s a good thing, not a bad thing, as far as I’m concerned. I suspect that’s what Saranzaya meant when she said that about breaking through the Queen’s defenses? Some people put walls up; I think you’re good at flowing around them gracefully.
Caion that probably made her like you and if it didn’t I don’t think diplomatic protocols are going to save anyone. I’m pretty sure she just likes being treated like a person?
Ha! It’s funny because I never feel like it but. Maybe that’s true?
Anyway AG also offered to challenge my mentor to a Rite and I told her she could before I realized who she was so please enjoy that thought too.
Oh yeah the diplomatic protocols comment was a joke. Well. A half-joke. I’m always haphazardly constructing new diplomatic protocols half by accident, it’s sort of been my job for a while.
Something Silver-Throat told me when I was a wee pup: What feels true isn’t always true, AND what you don’t feel as true might be true nonetheless. In this case, I think you should take heed of the virtue of Counsel on the part of myself and of Zaya.
I feel like… from what I know of your mentor he’d probably consider that a good time? Provided the stakes were reasonable, of course. Speaking of new diplomatic protocols, I suppose…
That and you do kind of … hm. Do this thing like. I pace? I think you pace with your mind. It makes you very, very good at what you do. But I can tell you’re doing it. Just fair warning I’m pretty sure what passes on the Beast for diplomacy and what diplomacy is codified as on Samudra are … significantly different. Honestly, it’ll be funny when you meet.
And yes, Scholar-Emissary. I will keep your Counsel in mind (I do still have my marked-up pamphlet. I take it out sometimes and think of you).
I wouldn’t have thought about it as pacing with my mind before you said anything, but now that you mention it I can’t see it any other way… you’re exactly correct. Noted, as to the significant differences - I imagine that if we on our various worlds ever do get to meet each other face to face it’ll be quite the adjustment. I, too, am looking forward to it, including the challenges!
I think of you often, friend, and I return to the gift you gave me for peace and comfort more often than I believe I expected to. It’s helped, quite a lot, and I thought you should know that.
You know, when I spoke with Solei, they told me when you first learned to Bubble you did it almost compulsively? Over and over again? I find myself … I have a piece of string I keep and even when I’m not trying to make a Bubble I’ll go through the weaving, the knotting and un-knotting (often while I’m pacing!). Sometimes I’m spiraling when I do it, but sometimes I’m just trying to work through problems, to weigh possibilities. I can just imagine you doing the same, albeit perhaps with a little less emotional mess.
I am so, so glad my gift meant what it did to you. That was the intent, always. I’m glad it can bring you comfort.
Also I’m not sure what your mobility is like with the crystalized bits, but here’s your friendly reminder to be sure you’re getting up and moving around too, even if it’s a gentle stroll around the room. I’m reminding you because I needed to remind myself too.
…actually now that I think of it, do naiads have organs? Do you get muscle cramps? Jorule would call me a psycho for asking this but I realized I don’t actually know.
I’d almost entirely forgotten about that, too, but Solei was telling the absolute truth. I’ve always been best when I had something I could do with my hands or to occupy my mind. Archie and I would make each other little gnosis-worked puzzle-boxes back and forth and we got- pretty alarmingly good at it. So, I guess we’re even more alike on this than we imagined?
That’s a GOOD reminder, thank you. My mobility is- a struggle, but I have help if I need it that I need to rely on more and stop trying to pretend I don’t require, and I am really bad at remembering to get up and move around.
That’s a delightful question, and Jorule would be wrong to say that! You’re exercising the Virtue of Curiosity, how could anyone ever begrudge you that? As far as an answer goes, we have complicated weaves of gnosis where humans and Kushtaka would have organs. Think of it like… having a couple different hearts, spread throughout your body, all going in synchronous unison. If I think about it (and it’s weird to think about it) I can feel the cycle of water in my own body, and I can feel where it’s no longer flowing, where I crystallized.
I do get… something basically equivalent to muscle cramps if I don’t get up and move around every once in a while. So, again, I thank you for the reminder!
Every time you tell me something about you and Archie I just—you two are so very much shaped for each other, aren’t you?
I think I was jealous about that, for a while. Aurelius and I … that’s work, as we try to build something. We don’t fit together naturally, I don’t think. We don’t understand each other. And Sininen is … I imagine more like Archie is for you. Brilliant, but sometimes I feel like I get him fundamentally and sometimes I don’t understand him at all. It’s the work, though, that I think sometimes makes it feel more meaningful.
I … if you ever want to talk about how you feel about your mobility, I’m happy to listen? I can’t relate but I can listen.
Caion, I think you’re sort of unique in being delighted by questions like “do you have internal organs?” but I’m not going to complain. That’s fascinating though. I feel like … hm. Samudra was strange. The very nature of how things worked there—the very power of thought—caused me to … become a little un-grounded in my thinking. I’m a very. Hm. I like the strange, the esoteric—but also my work with gnosis is better tied to physical object and tangible metaphors.
Did I ever tell you how grateful I am you could translate that for me? You really saved my ass a couple times and I feel more confident in my own gnosis-work than I ever have before. I know you never did much teaching at the Academy, but you taught me a lot, and I’m grateful for that.
It was work for Archie and I, too, we just– we got a head start, right? You’re seeing us after we’ve known each other - and at least seen the shape of what we meant to each other - for quite a while already. I definitely had to learn that his brilliance wasn’t going to outshine me, though. And, like I said, learn how to trust him properly. Try to be patient with yourself, if it takes some time for you to get there. I know both of them would have that patience for you, they’re both good men.
↩ Salme #1386I … if you ever want to talk about how you feel about your mobility, I’m happy to listen?I’m definitely still getting used to it myself, if that makes sense? I’m sure I’ll have some thoughts. For all our brilliance and our tendency to examine every edge case of usage, there’s a lot of the Academy that’s not well-designed for people with limited mobility, and I think there’s some real advances I could make in that field. Or at least direct other people to work on? I can do that now.
↩ Salme #1386I know you never did much teaching at the Academy, but you taught me a lot, and I’m grateful for that.Part of me always did want to be a teacher, but the constellations never lined up for things to happen that way– or, well. I suppose they did, didn’t they? Just not in a way I could have ever expected. So, I’m very very grateful for that. Thank you for telling me.
They both already have had that patience. And I finally see it. So yeah.
Though apologies. I hope I didn’t diminish the work you and Archie put in. Sometimes. I wouldn’t say I’m a hopeless romantic but I do have a romantic streak a mile wide. Sometimes it’s easy to get lost in that and forget even the most beautiful, stable relationships took work.
↩ Caion #1399Or at least direct other people to work on?Yeah or you have all the unhinged genius ideas and make them other people’s problem to implement?
↩ Caion #1399I suppose they did, didn’t they?They did, and you were exactly the teacher I needed. I think, maybe, you might have the chance to teach again. Your work is important and I know you’re an amazing Primus but I think there might be a lot of people on Samudra that bounce off the Academy’s way of doing things and could really use your unorthodox perspective.
Oh no, not at all! I just thought it would be valuable context to remind you of. We’ve got a saying at the Academy, that it was built tower by tower, day by day. And like– the 36th is quite new! We’re adding towers to the complex all the time. (We’re even talking about adding a new one, in commemoration of Solei, in order to study the Wave.) It can be easy for me to lose track of – that we’re in the middle of the River, you know? Everything that’s ever happened is behind us pushing us forward.
↩ Salme #1429Yeah or you have all the unhinged genius ideas and make them other people’s problem to implement?Not as a dig against myself or my own brilliance, in any way, but I feel like I’m less likely to come up with the unhinged genius ideas, and more likely to either remember something left in a storeroom somewhere, or get enough unhinged geniuses in a room together with lunch and stakt and give them a problem to solve and the resources with which to solve it.
↩ Salme #1429I think there might be a lot of people on Samudra that bounce off the Academy’s way of doing things and could really use your unorthodox perspectiveOut of pure self-interest, could I ask you to elaborate on what you mean by this? It feels, to me, like quite the compliment, and I’m taking it as such, but I also– I’d like to know more about what you mean.
Ah. That’s another way I think we’re alike in some ways. I used to feel self-conscious about this, but I’m starting to realize wrangling and remembering are important skills as well.
↩ Caion #1472Out of pure self-interest, could I ask you to elaborate on what you mean by this? It feels, to me, like quite the compliment, and I’m taking it as such, but I also– I’d like to know more about what yoWhen you took Awa and I to meet Scholar-Professor Xie, I don’t know if you noticed how badly I was struggling to keep up. I don’t this this was Xie’s fault. I don’t think it was Awa’s fault. I think. I don’t have the meticulous, precise vocabulary, or the … exact way of thinking a lot of people at the Academy do. Or, even sillier, but when I was stuck in SauceLab for over a day (fuck you, Caion) the spirit of inquiry was … lovely, yes, but it was also. So granular and systematic I struggled to follow it and pay attention.
I’m not saying you can’t be granular and systematic; I’m certain you can, but of everyone I met on Samudra outside, say, Ksenija, I felt like you allowed for the most space for people to think differently. We can talk a lot about shame, and underestimating myself, but you’re one of the few people I met where I didn’t feel shame for the gaps in my knowledge. And no one meant to make me feel like that, but I think … it was hard, sometimes, for people to comprehend that I was just that different, that I needed something else than the standard, codified explanation.
And, obviously, most people did not know I came from another plane! But I think it can’t all just be my coming from another plane. You have breakaway towers for this exact reason, right? How many brilliant people out there never go to the Academy (or never stay) because they’re Caions who don’t have an Archie to guide them through the process?
I don’t know. I just think your ability to accept people for who they are and value what they know is special. I think that’s why you were the Scholar-Emissary, but I also think that’s why you’d make a wonderful teacher. At least, I feel lucky that I got to learn from you. ☺
In my tepid defense, the last time I got mired in SauceLab I was only there for 5 hours longer than I intended to be. I’d hoped the same would be true for you. A foolish hope, on my own part, truly!
I’m glad that I could help bridge that gap, for you. That’s a skill, and I think you’re right to say that it’s a skill a lot of people here – particularly in the Academy – have never felt that they need to have mastery of, precisely because everyone here so speaks the same language. (Or everyone in an adjunct tower speaks THEIR own language, or– frankly, the Kushtaka clans. The reason I became the Scholar-Emissary is precisely because I could translate nimbly between the way Kushtaka talk and think, and that of the Academy.)
We need each other, but we end up talking past each other, if we’re not careful.
I feel lucky to have had the opportunity to teach you! And I feel like I’ve learned so much from you as well, Salme, truthfully.
A foolish hope on your own part and one you failed to warn me about. Caion, really.
As for the rest. There’s. Early on in Samudra we were having some problems in our group where people couldn’t understand each other. So many of us operated on the precepts that we all communicated in the same way and it was—nothing terrible, but just enough friction that it was uncomfortable. Sometimes I wanted to scream about it, because there were so many implicit assumptions flying around and … I’m not sure I even handled it with grace, but … knowing how to translate and how to communicate is a skill, right? It’s something you have to cultivate and a lot of people simply choose not to.
I can be pretty much what anyone needs in a given moment. I learned that—early, not just as the Sword-Saint, but early-early. As a kid getting handed around to big families that really didn’t have room for another kid and so learning to be the least trouble I could be, you know? That’s playing a role, right? And that’s not always a terrible thing. It’s a skill I’m glad I have. But it is. A skill.
Sometimes I get frustrated, because it doesn’t get treated like a skill. I think that’s probably not too different than what you’ve experienced? I could be projecting, so correct me if I am, but. It’s work, and it’s important work. And maybe this is my own background and my own biases, but I value people who can do it immensely.
And, I mean, I’m glad you’ve learned from me too. I … want to be someone who can be relied on, to share information, to help unravel mysteries. Not … someone who’s useful, but someone who’s making valuable contributions myself. So. I’m glad that I was able to do that for you too.
Yes! Yes, I know exactly what you mean. I wouldn’t trade it for the world, but I’d– I’d like it if more people had it, actually. It’s not something innate about me, it’s something I had to learn if I wanted to be the person I… wanted to be.
Now that I’m thinking about it, if I’m right and it’s a skill, that means we should be able to find a way to teach it. It might… literally take contact with the other worlds for us to get enough proper practice, but I’d like to try getting a head start.
Well I wish you luck with that. I’ve found it’s harder to get people to learn it if they don’t think there’s any value in it.
Though. You mentioned diplomatic protocols with the Beast. Here’s a thought for you: The Scorpion Queen would like a Samudran mattress (I kind of talked them up; what can I say, they were my second favorite thing about the Academy). What’s the best way to get one to her?
Awa can reach between planes and exchange objects, but a mattress might be a bit large. We could possibly load one aboard the liminal express, but that means physically carrying one. Aury has his pocket dimension, but I’m not sure if a mattress would fit and I’m also not sure how inclined he’d be to do favors for Jae. Help?
The Scholar who invented the mattresses we use should be celebrated for the rest of time, frankly. They’re brilliant.
I… hm. I wish I had time to study Aurelius’ trick and replicate it. When you’re -not- chasing down the secrets of the planes I’d like to borrow your cute boy for a week.
Barring that, though… There’s a trick that you can use to stuff a great deal of a single substance into a very small, dense volume - it comes in handy if there’s a structural integrity fault below the water level and we get flooding we need to mitigate. It might be possible to use that trick on a mattress, you’d have to reapply some of the gnosis patterns after it reconstituted itself, and– well, now you’ve sniped me. I’m going to go run some experiments.
I mean, you’re welcome to ask my cute boy to explain his trick but it’ll depend on if I’m willing to be separated for him from a week. You might be stuck with us both.
Oh. That trick would be excellent to learn and, honestly, I wouldn’t mind some Samudran mattresses in the Ziggurat between worlds anyway. Do you have any idea how hard it is to make a bed that’s comfortable for three very different people?
Also I need advice.
It’s come to my attention that. Hm. A couple people have been flirting with me? Outside of my partners, I mean. And at one point, one of my friends insinuated that I might have a crush on one of the people. I don’t … think that’s true? I like them. I love them, but I love easily. I want their attention and to stand in front of them as their equal and I do think they’re lovely. If I weren’t committed to what I have or if I was the kind of person who was good at casual, I could see whatever I think about them turning into something more, but that isn’t where things stand. And even if they were, I’d … there’s attraction, right? There’s passion and interest and fascination. But then there’s also.
I did a lot of reflecting recently, and one of the things both of my partners give to me is a kind of steadiness. A quietness. Yes, we can accomplish grand things together and yes it’s exhilarating, but also they’re home. They’re a place where I can be quiet and tired and silly and make thoughtless quips and … I asked you, I think the first time we talked, about building. I think we’ve built some of that already. I think we’re still building.
I know flirting doesn’t require action. I know … whatever I feel towards this person is strong and it could, maybe if planted in different soil, bloom into a plant more inclined to romantic feelings than … whatever these current ones are (this metaphor is a very bad one). I don’t think that’s what I’m feeling now? I don’t think that’s a feeling I want to pursue.
But again I do have strong feelings for them even if they aren’t romantic feelings. And if what we’ve been doing is flirting … I do enjoy that? Is there … harm there? Should I step back and recalibrate? Should I … talk to my partners? I know. Hm. I’m concerned if I bring this to Aurelius, with what he’s going through right now, that it would be an unnecessary anxiety. And it’s again not something I … intend to act on. I guess I just … well, as I said, advice. And I know you have some experience and I … don’t.
As someone who tends to love rather easily - more easily and more apparently than most people at the Academy, I think - I’ve had my experience with this phenomenon. Sometimes I was even being– playful, but the sort of playful that I know isn’t going to go anywhere, and don’t expect to, but other people got the wrong idea, and it was always rather awkward. But we love easily, Salme, and we don’t try to hide our affections! Everyone else can use their accurate powers of observation, and try to keep up.
I think the metaphor makes sense? It’s fine to be interested in someone in any number of ways, know that that interest could be something else in a slightly different world, and know that you don’t live in that world. And even if this other person is interested in you in some way, don’t ever feel for a moment like you owe anything to them because of their interest in you. I don’t know if this is a problem you’d be susceptible to, or not, but– it’s something I’m always wary of. Especially if you’ve gone most of your life without getting any of that sort of attention.
Anyways, it might be reasonable to ask the person you’re not sure if you are or aren’t flirting with how they feel and let them know that you’re not in a position where it’s going to be anything more than that, so they don’t get the wrong idea, if you think that’s a concern. What’s light can become heavy suddenly, sometimes, and there’s no way for me to confidently tell you if that would or wouldn’t be a good idea. But, there’s nothing inherently wrong or harmful with playful banter between friends, I don’t think, as long as everyone involved is having a good time?
This is why you’re my favorite, Caion. ☺
↩ Caion #1717It’s fine to be interested in someone in any number of ways, know that that interest could be something else in a slightly different world, and know that you don’t live in that world.In some ways … in some ways, being able to entertain so many possibilities, being unafraid or them—or, willing at least to look at them—is something I think I am very good at, that other people are not. In some ways, however. Hm. This is sort of a strange tangent to go on in the midst of asking about relationship advice, but I think a lot about fate and choice a lot.
On Almachadta, the Mask passes from Sword-Saint to Sword-Saint by a Rite. You choose to bear the Mask, even if you don’t know its secret. However, once Badri and I met, we both knew I would be his successor. I chose it, but at the same time … did I? And after that I did not think I had choices for a long, long time.
In a similar sense there is a kind of joy in acknowledge the infinite possibility of the moment, that anything, literally anything, could happen—even if some things are more likely than others. However, even as I acknowledge that, thinking that what I have with Sininen and Aurelius happened through a series of chances and, mostly, my own bullheaded initiative … I kind of hate that? Maybe I liked stories of fated lovers too much when I was young, but. Hm. Perhaps it sounds foolish to say this considering it’s not been very long at all, but they made me who I am. Like, you say a little later:
↩ Caion #1717Especially if you’ve gone most of your life without getting any of that sort of attention.Did that happen with you too? I. When I was young, I got … some attention, but I quickly figured out it wasn’t because people thought I was particularly likeable or good-looking. It was the kind of attention you get when people think you’ll be an easy conquest and, to be sure, they weren’t wrong about that part. And then I was the Sword-Saint and that’s the kind of attention people give you because they’re attracted to your hero persona and not … you. This is really the first time I’ve … had people actually flirting with me when I’m being myself and it’s. Well. Jorule had to hit me over the head with the truth about five times before I even got it.
And it isn’t like … the person who I’m thinking of isn’t something to me. I hate our language, sometimes, because “love” is such an inadequate term. The love I feel for Sininen and Aurelius is romantic, and it is deep and true and good, but I love Wolf in a decidedly non-romantic way that doesn’t feel appropriately encompassed by “familial”? Or Jorule, honestly, who’s … I don’t know what I’d do without him, or you Caion, or … the person I’m alluding to, where I play up aspects of myself in ways that are scary or weird or strange, even to me, and know they won’t flinch.
I don’t suppose there’s someone at the Academy who’s developed a new terminology to better express these ranges of feelings?
And I guess I don’t need a word, not really, but it’s helpful when I want to say, “yes, I love this person in a specific and enduring way that isn’t romantic or sexual but is profound and life-altering”?
Though at this point we’ve gotten fairly far afield from flirting.
Not the Academy, per se, maybe not outside of particularly deranged ontologies dreamed up in a distant adjunct tower (I say this with profound affection), but - the Ancients had words for loves, and subtle distinctions between different kinds of relationships which people could have, that have not survived, even to the point where we don’t have a good concept of what certain words even mean. I wound up researching that word you mentioned the other day, ‘synomote’, because it activated a memory I haven’t had cause to think of in some time - it’s attested in the context of a fragment that otherwise reads– complicatedly homoromantic or homoerotic, for example (ask me what one of my favourite fragments of Ancient text to study when I was learning was, or don’t, because you already know the answer, now…), also ‘syzygy’ which has attestations as an astronomical term.
In general, it feels like the Ancients considered a relationship between people that was based not necessarily on, although not necessarily excluding, eroticism or romantic feelings but built out of a drive towards mutual betterment to have been… at the same level of importance as we today put on sexual or romantic alignment.
You can probably imagine the ways in which this concept took up residence in my heart? Which might be why very little of what you’re describing sounds strange to me. Even if you don’t have words for what Wolf is to you, or what I am, or what this Mysterious Stranger you’re talking about is, I know that– there’s a there there, and I’d be willing to bet a day in SauceLab the Ancients had words for it if only we knew them. I don’t know if that’s a comfort to you the way it is to me - that there was a word for something, that I’m not the only one who’s ever felt a particular thing.
Can you tell me a bit more about this? The context was … there is an Alethic Rite-tone called [Libra], and if you cast it on someone during a Rite, you learn … some degree of information about the person. You can peruse what we’ve gathered so far in this library codex on Libra but the phrase was “Beloved synomote of Aurelius and another, whom I shall not identify.” The ‘another’ is the Awoken. If it’s “complicatedly homoromantic or homoerotic” what does it mean applied to … me?
And can you tell me more about “syzygy”?
↩ Caion #1725the Ancients considered a relationship between people that was based not necessarily on, although not necessarily excluding, eroticism or romantic feelings but built out of a drive towards mutual bettWell that’s. Hm. I mean that makes sense, I think, though at the same time … if I didn’t feel like Aurelius challenged me to be the accept version of myself I currently and simply am solely through being himself, or that Sininen challenged me to explore and accepted the tangled, strange bits of myself and accept them wholly and lovingly … I’m not sure … I mean the attraction would still be there, certainly, but that’s what makes things feel truly, ineffably special.
But yes, these are feelings I … do find echoed in my non-romantic relationships as well. The way Wolf can understand and cut through the noise in my head, the way you can understand and reach back with shared understanding and make me feel less alone, the way Jae … understands, and says, “so what, hit me with your absolute worst.” Or the way Jorule’s seen every nasty thing about me and still will sit with me through it all, even if he’s a dick about it sometimes.
But yes, this:
↩ Caion #1725that there was a word for something, that I’m not the only one who’s ever felt a particular thing.Yes. Every time I’ve had that moment of connection, the understanding that it is not me alone but so many people, all of us in the messy bitch mines, all of us … reaching for connection and trying to understand, all of us fumbling sometimes. That’s. Oh. That’s what Jae meant about the light being in all of us, isn’t it?
And. I think you understand this more than … maybe two other people but … carrying a secret or a feeling or a piece of knowledge that is so heavy it … well, I’m not sure if it warped you. Mine warped me. But carrying something heavy that you can’t tell anyone, and discovering, at least, that maybe more people can understand than you previously thought? That’s. Also something.
I apologise - the detail I provided wasn’t core to the meaning of the term, it was core to why I fixated upon the fragment in question. Humor is unclear sometimes, with this medium.
Generally speaking, what Ancient fragments we have don’t seem to care about the gender of persons in a relationship much more than we do today (on Samudra, at least - I suppose it’s possible things are different elsewhere), I just vividly recall being struck by the specific imagery being evoked and felt like laughing gently at myself where you could observe.
As for a syzygy - it’s clearly attested as an alignment of multiple celestial objects that persists in some fashion for some amount of time, or is otherwise markedly notable. It’s applied, not very consistently, as a metaphor as pertains to humans - the Ancients loved their physical and cosmological metaphors. No text in Ancient can ever be read on just one level; it’s both frustrating and, to some of us, at least, wildly rewarding.
↩ Salme #1730That’s what Jae meant about the light being in all of us, isn’t it?Two comments. First, I’d love to read what you’re quoting directly, because it sounds lovely and resonant with my own worldview.
Second: I’m reading between several lines here from several different ripples here, and piecing together information from the Folio pages you’ve shared, but– am I correct to hypothesise that the interlocutor you’ve obliquely mentioned is the Scorpion Queen? Salme, you truly are a marvel.
↩ Salme #1730...and discovering, at least, that maybe more people can understand than you previously thought?More seriously: When I realised that some of you looked at the Dream Whales and saw what I saw, it was like– seeing blue breaking through stormclouds, it was like– I don’t even have words for it. Other than to say that, yes, it certainly was something, and I’ll never forget it.
Oh! Well, I do have a blind spot for homoerotic yearning, apparently, so just consider it my being typically in-character and at fault here! It is cute that that’s where your eyes kept taking you. It seems like you’ve always been a bit of a romantic, haven’t you?
↩ Caion #1736the Ancients loved their physical and cosmological metaphors. No text in Ancient can ever be read on just one level; it’s both frustrating and, to some of us, at least, wildly rewarding.Well that’s true of our language and texts as well, isn’t it? That’s sort of why I do prefer oral storytelling than written (I know, I know, rich considering how much time I spend on this device) because it allows more ways of communicating, and a method of tailoring your story to your audience. So yes, I imagine working with the texts of the ancients would be wildly rewarding.
↩ Caion #1736First, I’d love to read what you’re quoting directly, because it sounds lovely and resonant with my own worldview.This was from my DMs with Jae:
“it feels like you keep worrying about being overshadowed by people, but you also worry about overshadowing people
and the thing you gotta realise is, there’s just one light in the world
and
it’s us
all of us
when you’re brilliant, there’s a brilliant light shining from you and the people you’re hanging out with, the same as what happens when any of them are brilliant”
She was helping me with. She’s been helping me with a lot and she’s. Yeah. The interlocutor I’ve been obliquely mentioning is Jae Carver, Scorpion Queen of the Beast. She’s amazing Caion. I mean, she’s a mess, but I’m a mess, and she’s. I don’t know. A friend. Someone the Ancients maybe had a word for but I don’t. Someone at whom I can be fully, unrelentingly brilliant without any concern about it being too much. Jorule said I had a crush and … I don’t know exactly how he uses that term but “nascent romantic feelings” isn’t … how I’d describe it. Romantic isn’t how I’d describe it at all. I just. Yeah.
Er. What’s the valence of “marvel” here?
↩ Caion #1736When I realised that some of you looked at the Dream Whales and saw what I saw, it was like– seeing blue breaking through stormclouds, it was like– I don’t even have words for it.Yes. Or. For me. It’s about being the Sword-Saint, and Jae … I’m still not entirely sure about the shape of her situation, but there’s a weight, there’s a heaviness, that can only come from being the only thing that endures. I’ve been realizing I haven’t been bearing it with as much grace as I hoped, and thinking she might understand some of it—I don’t know.
She’s very different from me. Optimistic to my pessimism. Brash and confident, and while I can be rash, confidence has come to me only slowly. But Caion. I can’t. Explain. Not really. What it’s been like. I’ve used so many words to so many people and I still can’t explain, and I know Aury or Awa or Wolf or … anyone, really. Archie, Luĉja, you—you’d all be happy to listen but.
I don’t know. She won’t talk about it yet, not fully. Talks around it a lot. But.
I hope.
A marvel, in the sense that you are marvelous.
Just from what I’ve seen of what she’s posted publicly, though, I get the sense that she’s putting on a very brave face - one that’s not a lie, at all, in any sense, any more than the face I wear when confronting the duties of an Acting Academician is a lie– I know you of all people would understand, immediately and intimately. I… imagine that’s probably a great comfort to her in ways she can’t easily express, if you’re correct in your assumptions. And I can understand, in turn, how she could be a great comfort to you.
I think trying to force something like that into anyone’s ontology of what the interactions between people are Referred To As might be doing it a disservice, frankly, and I don’t intend to try. I’m just overjoyed for you that you made that connection?
If she’s… if she endures, she must have lost more than it’s possible for me to imagine. If that’s the case, I think I can understand some of the brash and bracing walls it seems like she throws up at the slightest provocation.
We know from Libra that her current body is 4,000 years old and that there have been others. The absolute longest cycles in Almachadta were maybe a century more than mine, and there have only been a handful. Even if she hasn’t endured since the sundering of the world, 4,000 years is … at least four cycles? Presuming there’s some kind of cycle on the Beast. Either we’re wrong about the cycles or she’s endured at least through that many.
I think she is inherently brash. She’s … like Jorule. She’s been many people before she was Jae, but she’s been Jae a long, long time. Still, there are things about her that are often consistent—brashness, optimism, aggression, arguably self-absorption. Anyway, I mentioned her enduring to the others, and … well. Aury pointed out I shouldn’t expect other people to care about her like I do, and he’s correct, but. It’s nice to hear you say that about her.
I think that’s why she’s being cagey with me, at least in part. I think she. Is trying not to get attached? Of course, I didn’t really give her a choice in the matter …
Anyway. Thank you for listening. I hope my interpersonal drama is at least slightly more entertaining than whatever meeting you’re quietly zoning out in.
I would… be willing to bet another SauceLab expedition, going from everything you’ve described, if you’re correct, she’s… well.
I’m not going to ask if you’ll permit me to hypothesise, because I know the answer will be yes. If I’m somehow mistaken, my apologies, friend.
If you’re right, and she’s lost an unimaginable amount, then… from her perspective, she’s going to lose you too, in what must feel to her like the blink of an eye.
It stands to reason that she’s reticent about getting attached. I don’t… I suspect I’d wall myself off, too, under such conditions. Not that I expect her walls to survive contact with the ineluctable siege engine that is your capacity to love a stranger! And the world will be better off for it.
Oh she absolutely is walling herself off, or holding part of herself back, because she isn’t sure if I’m going to succeed or not.
She hopes I will. We will.
And I made sure she’d remember me even if I fail. Way better than … pretty much anything I could’ve hoped (having a near-immortal melt your sword into the arm of her throne of weapons, right where her hand rests? Yeah, that bitch will remember me for the rest of her life).
I think she’s already more attached than she intended to be, and. In a way that adds to my own determination to succeed. I’m going to prove that she can bet on me.
Though. A question. How … long … do Naiads live? Sometimes. Hm. I don’t know. I didn’t expect to see 30, so a human lifespan never felt all that short. I’m thinking about it now, though.
Holy fuck, you did what and she did what? I need. A moment. That’s. First principles. My goodness.
I promise I’m going to respond to your actual question (as if I could ever do otherwise) I just. Salme! You marvel.
It wasn’t my sword. Or it was, but it was Badri’s before it was mine, and it was another Sword-Saint’s before it was his, and before it was hers it was a different kind of sword. The balance was always a little off, and.
That’s her thing, right? She takes your weapon if she wins and melts it to her throne. And she took Wolf’s daggers but wouldn’t melt them when we fought her as a group, and so.
I knew I wanted three things, when I challenged her one on one. First, I wanted her to take my sword and melt it into her throne. Second, I wanted to cast Libra on her. Third, I wanted to get one hit in to show her what I was capable of. And I guess I wanted her attention. She’d been looking at Wolf during the initial Rite—everyone does, and I rarely mind, because Wolf is amazing. But here I wanted her to look at me.
And, more than that I guess, I wanted her to remember me. To force someone who is herself a force of nature to adapt and make way for me, even though I’m not immortal or a queen or undefeated.
And I did. And I lost, but I won in every way that matters.
It was fun. I haven’t crafted a custom deck to use against an opponent since before I was snatched by the Architect. It was a little like reclaiming my role as the Sword-Saint too. Albeit a swordless one.
I reiterate: You are magnificent. And you wondered why I called you a marvel. She must be fuming! Or… extremely happy? Possibly both at once. Probably both at once, honestly. Or, I shouldn’t speculate, I don’t know her aside from some light sniping back and forth on a strand, here. Anyways, I’m very glad you had the chance to do that. And it sounds like the Beast is bristling with weapons? I’m sure you’ll be able to find a replacement that you like.
Anyways, to answer your question from before, Naiads tend to live roughly as long as humans and Kushtaka do. Our lifespans trend long, on average, and any number of things that can go wrong with a human or Kushtaka body just don’t seem to happen to ours, and - if you consciously think about it, you won’t visibly age very much at all (and Naiads, in general– there’s a joke that we all tend to look like we’re either 20 or 80 with basically no in-between that’s funny because it’s largely the truth) but we do feel pulls towards certain appearances, that shifts as we age. And, eventually, for reasons we’re still studying, the gnosis that governs the cycle of water flowing in our bodies starts to lose its function.
Pearls, on the other hand, are indefinite, in theoretical terms, but between the fluidity of their identity and their fundamental instability, in practical terms they have a roughly shorter lifespan as individuals, on average. There’s at least one Pearl cluster off in the under-water portion of an adjunct tower to the east that’s around 400 years old but at this point they mostly just have extraordinarily specific and detailed thoughts about tea blends. Which is its own kind of unique and valuable insight!
Well it was less wondering why you called me a marvel and more wondering if you meant it sarcastically or not. And yeah, I think it kind of made her week? I mean, she still won in the way that matters to her, which in some ways one of the best kinds of victory.
I think for a sword Aurelius is going to … he already commission a gun for me (it’s lovely, Caion) but. Annarr was a brilliant weaponsmith, and I asked if Aury might be willing to draw on those skills and make something for me. Metal is so rare on Almachadta so the idea of having something made for me is. Pretty exciting? (Caion there is so much metal this place is lousy with metal).
OH that’s interesting about Naiads. I had thought they were longer-lived since Tasna’s still running around here on the Beast, but also I’m not sure … what her deal even is considering [Ivory Blood]. I do remember meeting Scholar-Professor Xie and being absolutely floored by his weird catfish whiskers.
Hmm I hadn’t considered that about Pearls. What happened to Synthesis seemed … unique, but it’s a process a lot of Pearls go through, isn’t it? Just … more suddenly, right? Though I guess, in some ways, isn’t that what … all of us are like? I can see a throughline from who I was when I was a child to who I am now, but I’ve changed a lot?
That’s maybe too abstract to make much sense. Hm.
I think I’m constitutionally incapable of calling someone a marvel and not meaning it sincerely; I apologise for the confusion!
Oh, that’s– there’s something very very lovely about using a tool a loved one’s built for you. Or building a tool that you know a loved one will be using. I wish you both the utmost joy of that experience.
What happened to Synthesis was unusual in some ways because of the fulminance with which it happened; barring some sort of catastrophe it tends to be a more subtle and gradual process by far.
You’re definitely asking a question many of us have asked before, on Samudra, and I think it makes a lot of sense. The water which comprises me is not the water which comprised me when I washed up ashore and was found by Archie. Where I am in all of that - the specific pattern that makes me me - is a question that might never be answered to my own satisfaction, and not unrelated to your query, I think. If Naiads, too, could split into two people, each of whom was… recognisably a piece of the person who had existed before, but neither of whom precisely were who existed before, I feel like I’d have a much better intuitive or internal understanding of what that’s like, and consequently, be able to give you a better answer!
Oh it’s … not really confusion. I’m still trying to smooth out those … wrinkles of insecurity. If I had thought about it for half a second, I’d have realized you’d never call me that insultingly.
I think … hm. Well. Sort of two thoughts. I’ll start with the somewhat easier one.
I can’t remember who I’ve told this to, and if it was you then please ignore me but … I’ve always sort of thought that … we aren’t really … that the only thing that that makes me a “person” in any cohesive sense is my ability to look back on my words and actions and feelings and go “oh, yes, this is me this is when I was myself and this is the story I’m going to tell myself about it.” Otherwise we’re just. Weird meat (or water!) walking around performing actions. And there’s cause and effect, yeah, but a personality only really emerges when we look back and make a narrative of ourselves.
And as much as I end up in the tar pit of thinking I’m just worthless and whatever negative shit, that’s a narrative too. That’s kind of why narratives are so dangerous. But. I guess to me the thing that makes me me is the fact that I decided that was me. That it’s my body doing things that provides continuity, and then my mind that makes sense of it.
I think this is maybe a really weird way to think about it. Sometimes. I think I approach things a bit sideways. Not in a way that’s brilliant, just in a way that’s kind of weird? Too abstract and instinctual, and maybe easy to dismiss? I don’t know. I guess that’s my second thing. Sometimes I wonder if I actually make any sense to anyone.
Insecurity is, to me, a kind of confusion, brought on by the past having been different, and having provided you different data, than is relevant to your present. Thus, I’d like to resolve it, whenever possible, especially where it concerns someone I’ve come to care for rather a lot.
↩ Salme #1820...the only thing that that makes me a “person” in any cohesive sense is my ability to look back on my words and actions and feelings and go “oh, yes, this is me this is when I was myself and this isThis model gives me much to consider. I think it’s… quite strong, and I think it coheres with the way Pearls talk about their self and their continuity of personality, and… hm.
↩ Salme #1820Not in a way that’s brilliant, just in a way that’s kind of weird? Too abstract and instinctual, and maybe easy to dismiss?Okay, but how could you possibly judge this for yourself, absent of the presence of proper exercise of the virtue of counsel? The vast majority of brilliant, complex, correct models of the world and of gnosis and its applications and the entire field of art and techne developed on Samudra would be easy to dismiss, if you were approaching it from without the Academy and its discipline. Dismissiveness would be wrong, but it would be very simple.
I think… I can easily imagine you as a person watched by the Lantern-and-Eye, and sometimes those who are watched by the Lantern-and-Eye are dismissed by those who are not.
In this particular case, it’s a surprising and different way of thinking about the self, but I don’t think being challenging to my view of myself as a– unitary, distinct Thing that Exists, rather than a thing which I am constructing as you suggest, mean that it’s wrong, or useless as a theory. The Virtues demand otherwise, in fact, and your explanation of that, at any rate, was perfectly clear to me.
I might need to sleep on this one.
Oh. Thank you. For this. And. I mean I know we’re quite good friends at this point, but it’s nice to hear too. I have been doing a lot better with not …. betting so in my head about feeling insecure though so. I’m also going to try to keep getting better at trust.
↩ Caion #1844Okay, but how could you possibly judge this for yourself, absent of the presence of proper exercise of the virtue of counsel?Ah. I. Think sometimes I try to explain what I’m thinking to … most people. Maybe I’m not clear enough, or maybe it’s because there’s so many things I don’t know, but I think many people don’t always find a lot of value in … these sorts of thoughts? Where everything is slippery and weird and relative?
I sometimes wish I had the Scholar-Emissary around to help me translate myself, I guess.
As for my weird theory of personhood, that’s just. Not really a thing you can prove or disprove. It’s just how I think about it and I guess I think about this particular thing a lot because Aury’s … complicated. I mean, everyone is, but. It’s on my mind a lot lately.
Anyway, everything’s a story with me and it always has been. There’s where my own biases lie (is there an academic virtue about knowing where your biases are? I don’t think I really see one, and … that might be good to add. I don’t think you can excise bias, not really. Though maybe that’s another me-weirdness).
There are many theories with great persuasive and/or explanatory power which cannot be conclusively proven or disproven at this time! They’re still very useful. Certainly, a belief which can be falsified is more practically useful than one which cannot be; one can only build structures on a foundation of justified and true belief. But that doesn’t mean that theories that cannot yet be proven or disproven either will never be able to be proven or disproven, or that they are worthless at the time being.
It’s interesting that you mention bias awareness in the context of the Virtues. While you were here in Samudra, did anyone at any point insinuate anything about what is sometimes referred to as the “Zeroth Virtue”?
Well not everything has to be fact or proven theory, I guess, to me. Some of the ways I approach understanding the world are simply me trying to make things I think implicitly explicit. I think a lot about meaning and truth especially, and where we construct both of those things. There are different layers of both of those things, and they all matter, but we’re granted the ability to choose, to focus on what matters here and now, because otherwise we’re left without the ability to act or do anything other than think in terrible spirals. And trust me. I am so good at thinking in terrible spirals.
No I don’t think anything or anyone mentioned the “Zeroth Virtue.” Would you tell me?
Ah! I read “can’t be proven or disproven” as dismissiveness towards your own theory, and I’m pleased to have been wrong in how I read that! (There are. Many people here who would argue that only falsifiable beliefs are worth discussing or considering. I’ve had extensive arguments with them, to the point where I end up dueling shadows about it, I think…)
Anyways, as for the Zeroth Virtue… If you read and think about the Virtues, it begins to feel like the enumerated virtues are a container in which to hold a virtue that is not, and cannot, be named explicitly, or that – it’s a map, a set of directions guiding you, potentially, towards a location which cannot be marked. (Speaking of unfalsifiable theories that are still productively useful…!) They surround a negative space, suggesting the shape of the thing that could exist there - a process the goal of which is to identify and work to overcome one’s own biases, even though that is a work which, like many important works, can never be finished. I agree with you that they cannot be excised. I think many people believe they have successfully done so, and can now rest secure and comfortable; I believe this belief to be rather profoundly dangerous, and contrary to the spirit of that which the Virtues exist to define by circumlocution.
I think perhaps one of the problems I had with the Academy is the standards for falsifiable beliefs felt stifling. There is so much worth testing and trying. There is just as much, if not more, where we can never know.
Ah. I see what you mean. I think. One thing the Mask grants is knowledge of what it is to be other than yourself. More than any other human, I know what it’s like to be Spoken Wood, or a monster. Not vividly really, but the experience is accessible. And if you’ve been something that perceives time and space and color and self so differently it’s hard to … afterwards, it’s hard to think you’re the default, you know? And there’s a trap there. If you’re not careful you can think finding any kind of consensus is impossible, but I think instead it’s being painfully, excruciatingly honest about how much we can know and what the quality of that knowledge is. The I am bound to perceive things through my human eyes doesn’t make what I see less real, you know, even if a pearl—or a Naiad—might see rather different contours of the world. Leaving aside the specificities of our bodies, the way our pasts and preferences and mental tools inform us are simply facts. We must be honest about those facts, but they do not make me lesser.
I think in some ways being a storyteller adds to our strengths, much like Wolf’s ability to hear through music, or Archi’s ability to evaluate facts and evidence. Different perspectives, not to determine the Truth but to navigate messy, contradictory truths.
Oh, Salme, I have had An Afternoon, and I needed this. That entire second paragraph is – it’s a perfect encapsulation of why I value your input and thoughts so much.
And it’s why Counsel is such an important Virtue? And Argument, as well? But - as you’ve mentioned, when everyone in the Academy, for all that they have their complex and intricate disagreements on matters of theory, are in accord on certain principles which they believe to be fundamental and universal, but which in reality - with the fullness of what we know exist on other planes - are not, and cannot be…
Could our Counsel ever mean what it could mean, without a Circle containing members with experiences and ways of seeing the world vastly different from our own?
I’m starting to feel like the Virtues have always demanded that we look outwards, and– maybe Tasna knew this, maybe it’s what drove her to the actions which she took. I don’t know. I do know that I’m glad to have met you!
An Afternoon, huh? Anything you’d like to talk about or do you just need the distraction?
Hm. I mean, I think your Virtues do demand that but before even worrying about multiple planes I’d say … what about the Irós consulting on certain matters, or pearls outside the Academy? I do think … with the whole of all our experiences across the planes (and without them) brought together we could truly accomplish very much indeed, and that might have been part of what drove Tasna, but I wonder if there’s things you can do right now, where you are.
Oh! Speaking of. Has anyone ever used the structure of a bubble to weave protections into it? Either to keep other things in, or some things out?
Ehh, just an Afternoon. Nothing terrible, just trying to form a unified message out of three different mutually-contradictory positions at a table, as one does. I even managed it! But it was an Afternoon for sure, and I needed to hear exactly what you had to say, I think.
Because, as you say - it’s that very thing, within Samudra itself, that we have to get better at. I think at least a few people in the Academy are- this is an odd feeling, but I think they’re taking notice of what I’m doing, and starting to pay attention. I hope so, anyways. If I can make some kind of lasting contribution to that effort… that would be very good, I think. I could be happy with that.
I don’t think anyone’s done that, but I can see how it could definitely be possible. You’d have to reinforce the bubble weave somehow structurally, I think, because they’re remarkably simple to disrupt physically as I taught you to weave them, but I’m willing to bet it’s possible. What have you got in mind?
Caion, as often as you caution me not to sell myself short, don’t sell yourself short either. I think if there’s anyone who’s going to change the shape of Samudra for the better, it’s you. Slowly, consistently leading by example, possibly at great cost to yourself, but it’s you. Dreaming serpent, remember.
As for the bubble idea, there’s two things I’m considering. The first is how to perhaps repel fiends from a moving train—this is probably less workable, and there’s someone here who might be the better choice. The second, though, is keeping out heat and light. We’re headed to Mu next, and I was thinking weaving transparent, light, breathable cloth that also shields one from the heat and glare of the sun.
Ohh, that’s an interesting idea, and I think that’s definitely workable, yeah. I can do some experimentation over here - without access to the gnosis signature you’re trying to fend off I don’t think I’d get very far, but I don’t know how I’d transmit the parameters of a complex work over this communication channel, anyways, but I can at least sketch out a proof of concept so I can help give you feedback. That sounds workable, though? We have protective equipment in Samudra (that we luckily don’t have to use very often) that works something a little like that, I think. I’ll take one apart to see how it works!
Yeah a proof of concept would work, and I can always ask Archie for help if you have a way to communicate more complex ideas via text that might bounce off me. For the fabric, I was thinking something like the weave of a bubble but … flattened for a loom, with a mix of radiant and pellucid? Pellucid always for the warp, but radiant for the weft. I tend to prefer cottons for breathability but silks for protection, though I’m not sure if that’s too … physical a way of thinking about it though.
I mean, the physicality makes sense? You’re making something that will have to be comfortable and functional as well as perform as a substrate for gnosis-work. That said, it’s been our experience in general that silks tend to do remarkably well with gnosis, more so than other materials. I’m so curious what might be available to work with on the other planes - on Samudra we’ve gotten very good at working with what we have available, and creating synthetic materials, as you saw, but the resonance of natural materials is quite different and I’d love to get my hands on a fiend pelt from the Beast! Or, well. Give the first several to more experienced craftspeople in the Academy, in a purely practical sense, but you know what I mean.
Hope you’re doing well, my friend.
The synthetic materials on Samudra were fascinating. I have, I will admit, relied heavily on Samudran fabrics and some silk cord from Almachadta in crafting my own clothing (you would be proud; I have again outdone myself) rather than Beast materials, though Awa has made himself a very handsome pauldron from the shell of some great creature.
I hope to visit some time and share my experiments with many of the fibers for Almachadta with those the work the looms in Samudra. I’ve always had a preference for linen, though cotton is more forgiving. I agree that silk works remarkably well with gnosis though—I wonder if it has anything at all to do with its origin as an animal product, not just a plant fiber. Wool also takes gnosis easily, though I’ve rarely woven anything fine enough to want to put on my body working with wool. (Wool is shorn from hooved creatures with heavy coats; usually sheep, but there are other animals as well. It tends to … feel porous, when spinning gnosis into it).
I’m certain we could collect some fiend pelts to send back. And don’t forget about the mattress request!
I am doing. Okay. Staying busy. I don’t know if you’ve checked the library recently, but made a discovery that shook me a bit. I’m back on my feet, though, and moving forward. I hope you’re well.
That’s really quite interesting, as regards wool. Supposedly, there’s some kind of undersea creature that lives in kelp forests and makes a kind of odd silk - now I wonder if the pattern would hold up there, too. Or what other animal fibres one could make cloth or felt out of… hmm. Or fiend pelts, yes!
I’m behind on checking the library - admittedly, partially because I got a little lost in the kelp forest working on the mattress request, but I think I’m making really good progress. I’ll try to take a look as soon as possible and catch up on what’s been happening.
Undersea silk! That sounds amazing. I would kill to get my hands on some of that. Also I’ll have to ask the Beast natives if there’s fiends that can be shorn for fibers that could be processed like wool. Pelts are fascinating, but I wonder if their are fiend-sheep?
Ah I apologize! Sometimes I get distracted by my own thoughts and forget to be mindful that you do have an entire academy to run. If you do get the mattress thing sorted, and if it takes up a small enough space, I’m wondering if Awa could reach between worlds to exchange them, perhaps swapping some fiend pelts.
The library can wait. It’s not pressing, just weird.
Though. Speaking of weird, I did have a question. It’s a self-indulgent one, and I’m asking you precisely because I know women aren’t of interest to you in this way, but recently a friend paid me a high compliment. When discussing why someone might want me over her (it’s … complicated and theoretical aside; the context doesn’t really matter) she said of me: “You, who leaps between worlds, who casually builds wonders, who embraces the unknown with abandon and utter love, you whose eyes are like fire.” And.
Sometimes Aurelius can make me feel beautiful and I know Awoken enjoys being with me, but. I’ve never really considered before that I might be … attractive to other people more broadly. I know confidence can go a long way and I’m not ugly, but in an objective sense am I … hot?
… hitting cast before I can die of embarrassment thanks.
Salme! I am glad that you did not allow your knowledge of my proclivities to lead you to believe incorrect things about my powers of perception! Which is to say: Yes, I have eyes, and you’re very attractive. Inasmuch as one can be attractive in an objective sense, at any rate, without doubt, -and- at least as far as I’m a relevant judge certainly in a subjective sense. I think I agree with the assessment of whoever said that about you! Obviously the emotional valences are completely different, but it wouldn’t be too inaccurate to say much of what she described are also things I very much admire about you.
Also, and utterly unrelatedly but it’s bugging me and I must ask. What does a sheep look like? I’m imagining an animal that looks like a fluffy cloud, but that can’t be right, can it?
I’m so sorry if my words offended you. I didn’t. I mean. There are precious few people I could ask, and of the four I thought of, two are already involved with me, one is Jorule, and the other was you. I didn’t mean to imply that you wouldn’t be perceptive. Indeed, I knew you would be. I was hoping your disinterest might lead to a more objective analysis but I didn’t mean to imply—I am burying my face in my hands and being mortified.
Thank you, though. I’m … still (rotating) this information and I’m not quite sure what to do with it, but it is good information to have.
↩ Caion #2320Also, and utterly unrelatedly but it's bugging me and I must ask. What does a sheep look like? I'm imagining an animal that looks like a fluffy cloud, but that can't be right, can it?Sheep are … in some senses, yes, they can look like fluffy clouds. They’re herbaceous mammals with hooves. They can range in size from coming up to about my waist to my shoulder, and depending on how they’re bred, they have thick, fluffy coats that are regularly shorn and spun into wool. They have long faces (they kind of look like goats) and their wool can be many different colors, though it’s often an off-white. It’s covered in a natural oil called lanolin that makes it very resistant to dirt and other wear, though it can be irritating on the skin.
Oh First Principles, no, Salme. I was being absurd on purpose! I’m sorry for the misunderstanding. (People HAVE assumed I’m completely oblivious to the existence of attractive women, and it’s always very funny to me, is all.)
Sheep sound… adorable? Are they adorable? What is a goat and what do they look like? I want to see all of these animals…
Oh! You don’t have to apologize. I just wanted to make sure I hadn’t actually seemed like … I don’t think your sexuality would ever make you not perceptive, and I think … I hadn’t thought about it much, before, having a preference. All of my partners have been men not due to specificity of interest but to circumstance. I am realizing that people who do have specific interests sometimes must contend with additional complications and … I’m really sounding very ridiculous, aren’t I?
I appreciate it, Caion. Thanks
↩ Caion #2337Sheep sound… adorable? Are they adorable? What is a goat and what do they look like? I want to see all of these animals…Sheep can be adorable. If they’re not well-taken care of, they can be overburdened by their coats, and they don’t always have the most pleasant temperaments. Alpacas are much more lovely as creatures go—they have slimmer bodies, longer necks, and faces that look a lot more like a … hm. I don’t think I saw any large mammals on Samudra, did I? I might have to think about how to best explain most of these.
Goats are similar to sheep, but they can have a greater variety of sizes (some are much smaller than the average sheep) and they don’t usually have as fluffy of coats, though they do come in greater varieties of colors—browns, spotted black and white, black, as well as many kinds of white. They have fairly spindly legs and round bodies. Their faces are long with eyes that face to the side, as is the case with most herbivores. They have horizontal pupils and short horns that curve back towards their skulls (sheep can have larger, curlier horns).
There are some goats that do produce enough of a fluffy coat to be used in textiles. It’s generally softer than many of the wools from sheep, but it is more labor intensive. We generally rear them for meat and milk and, sometimes, clearing land.
Cows (the animals we got the burger meat from) are a lot like goats and sheep, but they’re generally much taller and heavier, with broader faces.
agh, I’m sorry I didn’t respond to this. It’s been another Day. (It has been a succession of Days - there’s been disputes about who should get to study the Radiant Wave and how and if it’s safe to, but I’ve kept them to a very low simmer, thank goodness. Luckily, it… seems that no matter what there’s always enough of your island for everyone to have some time, there, to a degree that seems frankly uncanny to me, in a pleasant way I’ve chosen not to look at the gills of too closely.)
Thank you for the information about Baffling Cute Mammals with which you are familiar, and please don’t worry about having given offense - it would take a great deal for you to offend me, truly, my friend! And I would have long beforehand begun to emit convenient warning tea-kettle noises, I’m sure.
Caion, you don’t have to apologize for having a job. I just appreciate that I’m able to rely on my friend’s Counsel as often as I am.
Speaking of which, now that you’ve seen the folio about the cosmos … Jorule and I have been discussing a theory that the Beast is a literal Beast. She’s often referred to as if she’s a living entity, and the surface is referenced as “skin” in multiple places (I believe that even occurs in the folio I accessioned). The twelve moons are disappearing, and I’m not quite sure where that fits in, though Luĉja saw this vision from the Dream-Whales (you can view this at the bottom of The Dream-Whales of Samudra:
“An iron circle ringed by twelve iron spheres, and hanging from the top of the circle by a wicked chain is a huge glass bottle, and She is trapped inside the glass bottle, curled in on Herself, Her hands pressed against the surface, Her eyes on you, Her mouth covered with thick white cloth wound round Her head over and over, and then thick iron chains over the thick white cloth.”
Beyond that … Jorule said this doesn’t work much beyond the level of metaphor, and I think he is almost certainly correct, but. When speaking with Bahamut in the Mask (you can reference this section in Bahamut, The First Sword-Saint of Almachadta, Bahamut mentions this happening at the end of the first cycle:
“What I want to know is what made the sound I felt reverberating through the soil. I want to know what cracked the world to feast after searing it to satisfaction. And I do not and I cannot know, but I pray that you can.”
And after seeing Almachadta from the observatory, and the constant references to its—appeal as an object to be consumed, I almost wonder—if the Beast is a literal beast that awakens at the end of its cycle, is Almachadta what it consumes? And then I was wondering how Samudra might fit into that and I’m not sure. I keep thinking about the irrica rings that surround Almachadta, and wondering if they might somehow fall upon Samudra? Is that how we’re all linked?
And then I wonder what irrica might actually be. It’s a stone that’s mined near Kesset, but is it more than that?
Anyway it’s … almost certainly stupid. Jorule wasn’t convinced but. I figured a second pair of eyes might be valuable here?
I don’t… think that’s stupid in the slightest, for whatever it’s worth. Almost every theory that’s ever been worth a damn began as a productive metaphor.
It’s hard to imagine something… catastrophic like that happening up beyond the clouds, since that does seem to be the case, would not have catastrophic consequences for Samudra as well. Imagine if you’re right, and the Beast is a messy eater! I’m sorry, I shouldn’t– make light of this, but it’s hard to process otherwise without losing some vital corner of my equilibrium to the storm-winds.
I think you’re on to something here, though.
I feel like the moons almost have to be involved? But I’m struggling to comprehend or even hypothesise concerning their purpose or function.
You can make light of this. It’s—if this is the correct shape of the horror then the horror will come in time (or it won’t). Until then, there doesn’t seem to be much use dwelling on the horror if one doesn’t have to.
The moons are obviously involved but I don’t know how and it’s driving me nuts. I’m hoping we’ll get some answers soon (I don’t know if Archie’s had a chance to tell you yet, but we’ve made contact with Tasna and her companions—Duškomira of Valaïs and Xilai of Mu; we’ve not spoken much about what they know as they’ve mostly plied us for answers, but we’re supposed to talk tomorrow, I think). The best I have is that … the Beast’s song has the line “tick-tock time-marked” and twelve moons correspond rather neatly with the nearly omnipresent timekeeping devices that work on a 12-tick scale? I think … Luĉja might be able to help us unravel this, because they’re tied to the woman in the vision in some way? But again. There’s still so much we don’t know.
Let me know as soon as you find anything out. I can… have someone poke around for any references to things that happen by the dozen, I suppose - it’s commonly considered a lucky number on Samudra, for whatever irony that’s worth.
Questions leading to answers leading to more questions - such is ever the way of inquiry, I suppose. Thank you for your diligence!
No updates on great mysteries but I did have a small realization. When you showed me how to weave a Bubble, who … showed you? Tasna mentioned something about explaining how to Bubble based off a string game and I … I mean, could be nothing, but I remembered you teaching me and it looking like string, and it felt. Nice, I think. About her handing something down to someone who taught you, and then you teaching me.
I still do Bubble, even here on the Beast. I don’t need to, and sometimes I just do the motions, but sometimes. It’s nice to cast a Bubble and just exist in one, even if it’s not functionally doing much. It’s a way I remember you.
It was Solei who taught me, but I never thought to ask where they picked it up from, and it makes a lot of sense that they learned that in turn from Tasna. Something quite… lovely about the technique persisting until you yourself could meet her, face to face, I think.
That’s… that made me smile quite a bit, Salme. I think of you often; I keep the memory charm you gave me close and even when I do not access the memories you wove into it, sometimes it comforts me just to run my fingers over the beads.
I think beyond it persisting until I met Tasna, just that it persisted at all. And. It’s … nice, to think, that I am part of Samudra’s history in that little way.
I’m so glad the charm I made you comforts you. It’s … the tragedy of having made so many friends on this journey is having to leave them. You, Badri, and then thinking of leaving the Beast and not seeing Zaya or Jae as often … it’s good to have these connections, better to have them than not, but still.
I actually have kind of an odd question for you, but since it came up at least once … we talk about gnosis a lot, and about the shape of the cycle of whatever is happening, but. Have you ever thought about where love fits into the shape of the world? You said you were a romantic; I am too, and I’ve been thinking about love a lot, lately. I’m curious.
I think that…
Forgive me in advance if this turns into a bit of a weird thought-dump.
I know I’ve talked with you before about the Zeroth virtue, and I know that the one thing that everyone who knows ANYTHING about the Zeroth virtue knows is that you can’t put words to it, but that, of course, doesn’t stop people from trying. But, to me, the Zeroth is a question: What is truth for? What is the purpose of the Virtues, what is the direction pointed by the path they describe? Do we look for truth for its own sake and beauty, does it have an instrumental purpose, or is something stranger going on?
And I think - right now, at least, and I’m sure I’ll revisit this later - but I think that something stranger is going on. This is… maybe a very Kushtaka sentiment but I think that we have a duty of care to one another, one that we can’t ever set down, even though we can to some extent ignore it rather than attending to it. I think that if the Academy didn’t love itself, the Kushtaka did not love themselves, and the Academy and the Clans did not, in turn, love one another, and express that love, even when it’s hard and complicated and fraught, then we would have all fallen to thoughtstorm centuries ago. That… even on a world without thoughtstorms, if we don’t love each other and uphold that duty of care, what’s even the point of any of this?
And so I think - to me, at least - the destination of the path the Virtues describe is, itself, love. For ourselves, for our ideas and ideals, for each other, for the stranger. It’s a destination that can’t, in principle, be reached, but one towards which every single step holds meaning and value. And if we sharpen our ideas, hold each other accountable, try to best understand the world which we observe and understand our position within it… we do this because it gives us the best vantage point from which to love each other.
How do you think love fits into the world? You said you’d been thinking about it, and I hope you know at this point how very much I value hearing your thoughts.
I have been thinking about love. There is a line, somewhere, that I know because of either who I am or who I have become. “A kelson of the creation is love.” A kelson is a support built atop the keel of a ship. I shouldn’t know that, but I do.
I gave you my theory, of the Beast and of Almachadta, of being devoured. And it is a horror, perhaps, but what if it is also an act of love—Almachadta desires to be devoured, and the Beast desires to devour, and if the planes were once one, perhaps they are always trying to find their way back to one another, even if they can only do so in a way that harms.
There is a stone in Almachadta called irrica. You’ve seen it—it is what the tablet is made of, it is what the bracelet I wear is made of. Every color and none. Almachadta has rings of irrica, and when we were in the Architect’s Sanctuary, the sand outside—I did not remember irrica then, but when I look back on it, I can imagine it. And then. Hm.
I was doing … an experiment. I wanted to make something for Jae, something that would remind her of me. So I took silk, and I spun gnosis into it—burning first, because at my core I burn, then flourishing, because I grew in the soil of Almachadta, then tenebrous, because I want, and radiant, because I serve, and—I struggled with pellucid, truly, but I found my own way through—my relationship with the truth, which is relative and slantwise but it is mine. And the tenebrous and the radiant cohered and the burning, flourishing, and pellucid formed a helix, and then I used liminal to collapse them, to create something whole out of them, and it was an act of love. And the artifact I made—I should accession the memories for you, you’ll likely find the process interesting—it took the form of two snakes—one black-and-white with purple-knotted eyes (tenebrous, radiant, liminal) and one irrica.
Sometimes I think the gnoses of our world are separate things just longing to be whole. I think that kind of attraction is love.
And then, yes, there is love of the stranger. There is love of our companions. There is love of ourselves. Any great work I’ve done has almost always been driven by love. I’ve found I’m very capable and my capacity for love itself is almost endless and I think these two things are not unrelated. I think the last I mentioned—love of the self—is what I struggle with the most, but I achieved in my gnosis-work and I felt infinite in that moment.
I hope that doesn’t sound grandiose. I’ve spent a lot time splintering myself into pieces and last night, for the first time in a long, long time, I felt fully integrated and like I loved myself.
I don’t think gnosis is powered by love alone. I don’t think love alone will save the world—but I think. I think like your zeroth virtue it is the prerequisite for doing what we do. Stories themselves are beautiful. The various, fractal truth that dot our world are beautiful. But it is love that gives us direction, that moves us, that makes it worthwhile.
I think, though, even beyond that, it is what allows us to transcend our boundaries in some ways. The love of a stranger is what allowed me to invite the Omniclast in, what built my connection with Jae. The love of my companions gave me my bond with Wolf, gives me strength every day. Romantic love keeps be safe and stable and lets me dance among the stars. Love of myself lets me move forward.
Love can wound. I’ve seen it happen. I’ve been wounded by it. It’s like fire, isn’t it, in that way? It can blind, too. “Love is not all: it is not meat nor drink / Nor slumber nor a roof against the rain” but that sonnet ends “I might be driven to sell your love for peace, / Or trade the memory of this night for food. / It well may be. I do not think I would.” Oh Caion, to have this much love and the infinite possibility sprawling out before me—sometimes it overwhelms me.
That was, perhaps, not very scholarly. But.
Here are the memories, for your perusal: Textile Trials
When Archie was missing, I… I don’t need to explain the Academy’s recent history with people throwing themselves into obsession, people refusing to give someone up for lost, to their detriment and that of the Academy entire. It’s visited tragedy after tragedy on us, up to and including the dispute of the Zeroth Circle. And yet. When Archie was missing, I knew that I’d do anything to find my way back to him or let him find his way back to me. I knew that he would. And I can imagine myself rushing forward - even breaking anything that stood between him and me, no matter its value…
…I don’t know where I’m going with this, exactly. Other than that I think I agree with what you’re saying here, and I’m both glad and proud of you for experiencing that. You ought to love yourself, Salme. Call it the virtue of Counsel from someone who, himself, loves you a great deal: you are well worthy of it.
And I know that Archie and I reached out to each other across a distance I still am not capable of imagining, and when we reached out, he came home to me, and he brought you and the others with him, and we could not have done that, I don’t think, without our love for one another.
I do have other thoughts upon reading the folio - more academic thoughts, gnosis experiments I’d like to try and organise, but they don’t seem as important or require me corralling some attendants and scholars to work with me on an experimental protocol. Thank you, as always, for sharing your newfound knowledge.
I guess then a follow-up: is there a … wrong way to love?
To explain: I was speaking with Jorule, and it was a good conversation, but he at one point described a relationship where one might be compelled, unprompted, to share every facet of oneself, where one couldn’t imagine being apart from the other. He said that, to him, this was inherently a romantic relationship. And he wasn’t telling me what I should be—indeed, he’s been very respectful of our differences—but I realized that that kind of relationship doesn’t, necessarily, seem like a romantic one to me? But I also realized that I’ve never actually had a romantic relationship before and so. I guess I’m seeking some advice?
To me, openness is something I will freely give to everyone and … tend to demand from everyone (I am learning to accept this is not necessarily a reasonable demand!). Sharing any facet of myself with someone who wants to see it feels easy and natural, and I always want to know the facets of other people that they’re willing to share with me. Though perhaps I’m not great at the every facet thing—I’m still discovering parts of myself.
I think it’s the “being apart” thing where romantic feeling comes in? Or at least … I miss people. I miss you. I miss Badri. I know I’ll miss Zaya and Jae when we leave the Beast. But there’s only ever been a few people I’ve thought, “this is a person I would want beside me for the rest of my life.” The way I feel, sometimes, when I get ready to sleep and Aurelius or Sininen aren’t in bed—it’s a little silly, because I know they’ll get there eventually, but at the same time it’s like I’m missing a part of myself. It’s maybe … too early to say that about either of them. But neither of them will read this, so I suppose I’m allowed to say such things.
At any rate, a couple things happened recently and I … hm. I guess it might be easier to back up a little.
I’ve told you about Jae, right? The Scorpion Queen, Overseer of the Beast. My friend, and then my something-beyond-friend. I took her into the library. I had a project that required manipulation of the weddles on my loom, and being 7 feet tall and having four arms would’ve been ideal for it. But when we stepped in to the library she didn’t look like that at all. She was … human, curly hair, pale skin, almost fragile looking, and there was a vividness to her, and openness to her that she doesn’t have as The Scorpion Queen. And suddenly I … it isn’t that I had never found her attractive before. It isn’t that we hadn’t … flirted, but it was flirting in the same way you’d engage in a Rite. In the library, though, there were a couple moments of attraction that felt achingly possible, where any flirting would be a step on a road toward something that felt like romance.
Because the thing is I’ve had a lot of sex. I’ve had … more than I thought, as I’ve remembered things, and it’s never meant much of anything and I’m not particularly interested in having more of those experiences. Anything I would’ve imagined, unbidden, with The Scorpion Queen, would have been … not meaningless, but of a kind with that. Fucking. A fling. Whatever.
With Jae in the library it would have been more, and I wasn’t … that is not a door I wanted to open. It’s not a door I think she really would have been interested in opening either, I don’t think—from what I know of her, what I want out of a relationship and what she does are indeed very different things. And aside from a couple moments of … wanting, of some weird potentiality, nothing happened. But I still felt weird about it. Wrong. Like I’d violated something.
I talked with Jorule about it, and he said it did seem romantic. I explained the outline of it to Aurelius and he also said it seemed romantic but seemed satisfied when I said I didn’t intend to act on any attraction I felt. So I mean. The stuff above is mostly context, I think, for what I really wanted to ask about. Which is really about Aurelius. He said something, before we really talked it out, about my heart being large and my desires immense, and not being sure about how much his opinion should matter when … he expressed it as me “limiting myself.”
And I told him my future, as I imagine it, is always with him and Awa before anything else, but I’m not sure … maybe he heard it. He doesn’t make a big deal out of these things when I say them, so maybe I’m worrying over nothing. But I don’t know if he really understands how much I’d choose him? How much I love him, the person he is, the person he’s become, very specifically?
There’s … before we met you, in Almachadta, Aurelius was … different. Much more like Jorule. Indeed, it’s exceedingly difficult to disentangle Aurelius from Jorule in those early days. You’ve met them both, but … Aurelius was prone to speaking without thinking. He … we got in a fair amount of fights, actually, and still I wanted to kiss his stupid face almost from the instant I met him. On Samudra he started to change. He was more careful with his words. I thought that was at least, in part, a function of Samudra but he’s stayed the same since we’ve been on the Beast, and finally, I realized …
A lot of it is because he’s trying to make this work. To make us work. And we are working. But realizing just how hard he’s trying? Even if he makes less noise about it than I do? I felt … very loved, in that moment.
And I suppose I worry that he doesn’t see how much I love him in turn. I worry that he sees himself as one among many, and while I would never try to put him above Awa, or Awa above him, in my heart, I would choose him again and again over any other potential love. That as much as I love Wolf or Jae in ways that I don’t have words for, they are not the same, that I would not find a way to fold space and time to find him if he was taken from me. That as big as my heart may be, or how immense my passions are, it is the fact that he is home, and all the small ways he guides me home to him—that’s where my love is the strongest.
Home is a silly motif, perhaps, but it’s one I’ve been thinking about a lot. I lost mine when I was young. I always had shelter, of course, and once Badri had his house, I had a room there that was called the guest room but was … Badri let me know could be mine, but I could never quite call it so. So. Since I was fairly young I’ve been without. I am someone who belongs both everywhere and nowhere (until recently I would have said “nowhere” only, but I think “everywhere” is just as true) but it’s with him, with them both, that I feel settled and safe and home.
Perhaps I should just tell him this? I spend a lot of time talking about Aurelius to other people, and perhaps not enough time talking about Aurelius to Aurelius, but (and here is the part about facets) perhaps I’m scared that the smallness of these feelings will prove disappointing. I don’t think it’s terribly rational; I don’t think … but I am the Sword-Saint, and I am Salme tou Alsos, and I can weave magic and … I am also a girl with no family willing to claim her from a village far away from the center of Almachadta.
Anyway, thank you Caion. That was a lot. I appreciate (in advance) your time and Counsel.
Hello, Salme! I’m going to give this enough time to rattle around in my brain a little and go back to it when I have something to add; apologies if this takes me a long time to get out as a consequence.
I think… I don’t know how much of this is a cultural difference between your world and mine. On Samudra, at least, there’s– there’s certainly people who only have one sexual or romantic partner in their life, even, but I think, and I wonder how much this developed as a protective measure along with the Virtues, that there is a longstanding tendency to… not ever begrudge someone having felt a romantic or sexual attraction to someone else that doesn’t get acted on? That… happens, all the time. Not everyone is proactively delighted by a partner having other romantic or sexual attachments or impulses (to the point where, in fact, people have called me strange for it, myself! And now you know something about me I’m shy about and don’t tend to volunteer), but by and large it’s considered, at best, poor form to begrudge an attraction which isn’t acted on at all. It’s hard for me to put myself in a mindset that would see that as you having violated something, and I’m willing to say I think I’m objectively correct here.
All of which said, you said this was about Aurelius, not that concern, so let me recalibrate…
You say that Aurelius said that your heart is large and your desires immense…
But also, you constantly put down your own metaphors, and wants; call them silly, and small, and petty. And you worry that they are too small for him to ever see or care about, or not be disappointed by.
I don’t think that both of these predicates can possibly be simultaneously true!
This is, it either will or won’t shock you to hear, a dilemma on whose horns I spent time being mauled precariously.
When Archie was preparing to join the Academy, and after we’d both done so, I constantly felt… well, I’ve tried very hard NOT to feel like I don’t know who I am without him as context, and I think I’ve been successful. But I am still my brightest and my sharpest when he is by my side, and for a while… I don’t know. It’s not true that I ever wished that he’d prefer a smaller life; it’s also not like the other options available to him wouldn’t have had him haring off on a Glass Ship for most of the time in a way I couldn’t follow. But I felt like what I wanted - to be by his side, to be his lamp - was so small compared to what he cared about, compared to his appetites.
And he told me, one day, when I confessed to him my concern, exactly what Aurelius already told you - that my own heart was large, and that my desires were immense, not in those terms precisely of course but the sentiment held. And I had to believe him; how could I have done otherwise?
All of which is to say: You should talk about Aurelius to Aurelius. It’s not a Problem to be Solved that you think of home and it’s where he is - it’s just a fact about your world, relevant to your relationship. And I’m confident that he knows, already, but I’m sure he’d like to hear it anyways. I think it’s a sentiment that’d always bring someone who loved you joy.
It doesn’t sound like he’s… worried? That you would choose someone else over him. It sounds like he wants to make sure you feel you have the freedom to choose someone else in addition to him, if that’s where your heart led you; that he’s not concerned that you’d not have enough for him, and the Awoken, and also others, and it sounds like he doesn’t… feel obligated to be bothered in the slightest if you had feelings upon which you did not act. That’s, to me, what a person ought expect! But I think that… perhaps, and I’m speculating here, and please feel free to tell me if I am out of line. But I think that you might feel upset if you thought that he had others besides you in your heart - whether or not you’d WANT to be upset about that, I suspect it would disorient you greatly even as a hypothetical - and so you assume that he would feel like for you to hold space for another would be abrogating the space you held for him. That he is diminishing himself for your sake, rather than simply acknowledging that your heart holds room enough for him to stand proud in his love for you, and yours for him, regardless of whom he might be sharing that space with.
And I think, when it comes to that, you must listen to and believe him when he tells you his heart.
This is standard on Almachadta as well. I just. Mm. Will explain later.
↩ Caion #2934Not everyone is proactively delighted by a partner having other romantic or sexual attachments or impulsesI am sorry people have found this strange and you feel shy about it. Thank you for sharing this part of yourself with me. (And, with Archie’s permission, I’m working on a folio that has some images of him on our journeys for you, and that gives me useful information about what to include!). It is strange to me, but mostly because … ugh, I’ll talk about that too, later, because you call me out on it. But I think this is a lovely way to be, even if I can’t imagine being thus.
↩ Caion #2934You say that Aurelius said that your heart is large and your desires immense… But also [...] you worry that they are too small for him to ever see or care about, or not be disappointed by.I suppose I’m worried that … I think that he thinks I want more than I do? Or want different things than I do? I guess maybe I should ask him what he meant by that, really, rather than speculating. As for the smallness … I think that was unfair of me. I don’t think he’d ever be callous enough to not care about something that mattered deeply to me. Maybe it’s just that I’m shy about it?
↩ Caion #2934And he told me, one day, when I confessed to him my concern, exactly what Aurelius already told you - that my own heart was large, and that my desires were immense, not in those terms precisely of couI’m glad he told you this because he was right to do so. Caion, you’ve carried the desire to absolutely upend everything anyone knows about Samudra your entire life—you’ve carried a truth that no one else could ever see. You have such a boundless capacity for curiosity and for kindness. I know … this was to illustrate a point, but I can’t let that stand without at least speaking to it a little. Archie was correct and I am glad you believed him.
↩ Caion #2934All of which is to say: You should talk about Aurelius to Aurelius. It’s not a Problem to be Solved that you think of home and it’s where he is - it’s just a fact about your world, relevant to your reI’ve told him a little. I try to tell him a lot. I get shy, because he’s pretty … he can taciturn, though he’s not really taciturn around me, really, but he’s not often talkative about romance and I don’t want to embarrass him or embarrass myself. I mean again, Jorule pointed out I’m sort of like a teenager with a first crush and he’s not wrong, not really. I get like this with Awa too, occasionally, but with Aurelius it’s almost constant.
I’ve been. I’m decent at poetry composition, and I’ve been working on … I wrote this long epic about my duel with Jae, you know, and it was so easy—it came together very naturally. But I’ve been fiddling with trying to write something small, a sonnet or a villanelle, for Aury, but it’s so much harder. And it’s silly! The world is ending and I’m trying to write love poems! But I’ve always composed while I spin or weave. Anyway.
↩ Caion #2934It sounds like he wants to make sure you feel you have the freedom to choose someone else in addition to him, if that’s where your heart led you;I don’t think he’s worried about that. I don’t think he’d be worried about that. I just wish he knew that he is enough on his own. Both Awa and Aury … either of them would be enough on their own, even without the other. That we fell together as three—that is good, that feels right, I would not trade it for anything—but if it hadn’t happened that way, if it had just been Sininen or just Aurelius, I wouldn’t need another person (though, I suppose, they might have needed another person to deal with me!)
↩ Caion #2934But I think that you might feel upset if you thought that he had others besides you in your heart - whether or not you’d WANT to be upset about that, I suspect it would disorient you greatly even as aI. You’re not out of line. You’re right and that is another thing that … I don’t know what to do with. There was a moment where I thought that might be the case and … I did not react well. I think Aurelius was spared the worst of it, but Jorule fielded … a lot of my freakout and. It doesn’t feel fair. That he should be so open and thoughtful and understanding and I should be like this.
I think that the important thing to remember is that different people are different, and want different things, and in our differences, and the ways they fit together, we’re stronger together than we could ever possibly be apart from one another. Like… I think that two copies of Archie would– well, they’d be far too polite to fall into Rites immediately but I do think that would be the end result. But you can have needs that are different than Aurelius’, and that’s fine, that’s good actually - it just means you might struggle to understand them rather than just immediately being able to empathise and get it first-shot correct.
Also, orthogonally to any of that… I’m not, all things considered, the love poetry sort; I’d write… I don’t know, love policy documents signed in triplicate by all appropriate parties. But I think that if the end of the world isn’t exactly the right time to write love poetry, I’m not sure when would be. I’m not sure he’d… appreciate them in the way that you’d need him to, though, and I worry about that, and that’s not… anything wrong that either of you would be doing. Sometimes the ways in which we’re different get in the ways of our needs.
Which is why – I think, to gently push back on a comment you made, I think it’s probably the case that Aurelius alone wouldn’t be Enough for you, I don’t think you should expect him to be, I don’t think he’d want to be. No one person is Enough even if– my sky brightens and dims around Archie but he’s not the only person in my life who matters to me (as evidenced by, among other things, this ripple) and I know you’re speaking in a… romantic and sexual context but I think you do need someone in your life that, for example, knows how to appreciate a love poem you wrote to them, and that’s not– a statement against Aurelius, in the slightest. I just think you’re holding yourself to a standard that nobody would hold you to, and I worry sometimes about that hurting you.
Yeah, “struggling to understand him” is a big part of it, but I think that’s … good, like you said. It’s funny, because as strange as so many people seem to find Sininen, he often makes a kind of intuitive sense to me. Aurelius doesn’t. But it’s worth it, learning someone like that, slowly, one step at a time.
↩ Caion #2960I think you do need someone in your life that, for example, knows how to appreciate a love poem you wrote to themI’ve gone back and forth on this, and I do think I’m going to respectfully disagree here. My compositional work is. To me, it’s art. It’s important. It’s—for years, it was my actual, literal calling. Having people in my life who can appreciate it as art is important, but they don’t need to be my romantic partners. I think … my fear in writing something for Aurelius and presenting it to him, is that he would think it just another attempt at a gift and not … something I wanted to do, and did do, solely because he inspired me to do it? And he doesn’t like gifts so I’d feel … bad, if he reacted in that way. But I think I’d still like to do it, and I think I can use my words to explain what the difference is if he does react that way.
↩ Caion #2960I just think you’re holding yourself to a standard that nobody would hold you to, and I worry sometimes about that hurting you.I really appreciate you saying this, and there are times it would have absolutely been true. Even … I mean, I do tend to contort myself to please others. But I think. I have said a true thing. There are obviously many things Aurelius cannot be for me, and many things I cannot be for him, but that is what a Clan is for. If it were just he and I, or Awa and I, I think I would be happy in that partnership (which is odd to think about, as I’ve always been disdainful about pairs!). Luckily, I don’t have to test this theory.
And if the world tries to take one of them away from me, I will realign the heavens and get them back.
Also! From the Iron Chef competition: Some images of Archie’s triumph. Enjoy!
Ohhh, that makes sense. And I apologise for making unwarranted assumptions! It felt to me from the description that you gave that you were… expressing an unmet need that you didn’t feel good about having, I guess, rather than a fear concerning Aurelius’ response, but– I think that you can find the words to communicate that what you’re doing is something you’re doing for him for the joy of it, rather than as a gift. I feel like– Mark me if I’m wrong or making more unwarranted guesses, but I suspect on some level he feels like being given a gift is a thing he can fail at? I’ve known people like that, in my life- sometimes I think Aurelius would fit in quite well in the Academy honestly, it’s a reasonably common failure mode, here.
↩ Salme #2962And if the world tries to take one of them away from me, I will realign the heavens and get them back.I’d be right there with you helping out, if push ever came to shove. Hopefully, not something either of us will have to face, at this point. But if we ever do, you’ve got the full force of the Samudran Academy at your back, my friend.
Oh, Principles. This is– this is delightful, thank you. Oh, my goodness. I know he’d win!!