Tenebrous + Radiant Weave?

I was wondering if anyone had any experiencing with weaving tenebrous and radiant gnosis together (or could expound on any theories regarding the subject).

To explain: here on Mu, they have orchards and trees that should not be able to survive under the light of the harsh sun. I realized there was complex gnosis-work suffusing each individual leaf of each tree. I took a small sample of leaves, and Archie and I slowly pulled the leaf apart to examine the gnosis woven into it. It’s the most intricate work Archie has ever seen, a combined working of tenebrous and radiant.

I recall Awa’s Ra’kaznar metal, which is also an interweaving of both.

Additionally, Yazhn Dyu took Archie and I to the infirmary. There is a Sun-sickness that humans contract where long exposure to the sun of Mu causes iridescent nodules to develop on the body. The symptoms can be assuaged with Dyu’s healing, which is radiant-based, but the nodules themselves are untreated by such healing—or eventually grow resistant (I did not think to ask precise clarifying questions). Archie and I have both theorized a more effective healing might happen from a mix of tenebrous and radiant gnosis, however I have no idea where I’d even begin to heal with tenebrous gnosis. Dyu was able to teach us his radiant-style healing by unlocking the pool of radiance within us both, but without a similar guide to Dyu for tenebrousness I don’t think … a similar process is within our grasp.

Anyway, just hoping for thoughts and input. Casting into the void. Later.

Uhhh generally you “heal” with tenebrous gnosis by draining energy from the target of an attack back into yourself, for what it’s worth. Possibly by sacrificing your own life to give to another, but I can’t find an example of that in the rites to back the thought up. Almost certainly not a terribly sustainable form of treatment from a doctor’s perspective, though.

I don’t think either of those would be particularly applicable toward healing, no. I wonder, though, if … this places is oddly deathless. I wonder if an element of … decay or death would be the trick here?

Especially if the protrusions from the Sun-sickness are from an overage of radiant, encouraging them to wither and decay might work?

I feel like we’d probably be turning into alabaster statues if it was a radiant overdose thing…? Keep us Safe and Secure at the expensive of being able to, like, do anything?

But, hm. Describing this place as free from decay and death is… interesting? Because it’s absolutely trending towards extremely inhospitable and death is constantly encroaching? It’s even got Lucja rusting just being in the light. “Went back to sleep forever until God says we’re done with the Mission” also, uh, reads a lot like death to me, even if there’s a chance it might not be permanent. Fruit not rotting is weird as hell though.

So the impression I get is that this place is rather violently treading stasis, rather than it lacking anything in particular, and it’s fighting against that. (see: forcing the barren fields of death to produce life once again et al.)

No idea what that would mean wrt introducing more tenebrous tho, which if nothing else, does feel kinda on theme. OTOH a clean 3 vs 2 combo split feels Weird as shit too, so I’uno.

The slow development of iridescent nodules do seem to arrest movement as they grow, for what it’s worth. Not quite becoming an alabaster-and-gold statue, but not that far away.

I agree with your point about stasis, and I think that’s why things don’t rot. When I was in the First Field, there are remnants of roots in the soil that stretch back almost 280,000 years. That shouldn’t be possible; they should have decayed long ago. Similarly, they have records in paper books stretching back to the beginning of Mu. That also shouldn’t be possible; paper that old, anything that old, would have long-decayed by then.

I think it might be three, actually? Tenebrous, radiant, and liminal, somehow, to merge the two? Or at least, that’s how the iconography turned out on my gnosis-spinning experiment. No idea what that means either.

That would match with some of what I have been privately theorizing–that there are two stable triads; though what exactly differentiates the two except “one is pellucid/burning/flourishing and the other is radiant/tenebrous/liminal.”

I would add, from an experience that I recently had–the making of the Garden’s Key–that I would definitely concur with a core part of Tenebrous nature being the willingness to change and consume in order to live. The nature of Radiance, on the other hand, is that can be remarkably callous about individual life, so long as the whole remains intact. It may very well be that the “anger” of Mu’s sun is a ferocious desire to cease change.

As for liminal…I will say that the experience that I had was strangely enlightening on that front. Both Radiant and Tenebrous involved an exertion of will, of effort, of desire. To summon Liminal, in many ways, I had to do…nothing. I had to accept the world as it was, to let it flow in its own ways–both light and dark, real and unreal. It was like…stepping onto a Path, where I stood still, while the journey happened around me.

What that would mean for stabilizing Mu (and eventually Valais), I have no idea. But I definitely think you are onto something with that triad.

Hmm. That does make sense, at least. Though more directly what it feels like Mu needs is flourishing and pellucid… but… Well, it’s strange that they’d be generally separated into two groups, with one of the components of one group being secret/hidden…? Maybe there’s something to that though, the stillness and the song? Physical and spiritual separations, even if that’s not really how gnosis tends to work practically? Are we to then assume the Sanctuary would be the liminal world…?

It’s all very strange.

Also interesting that liminal to you is expressing itself as acceptance and something that happens around you! It’s very much the opposite for me.

I had wondered about the Pellucid/Burning/Flourishing triad and how it might somehow be related to The Stillness. I don’t know if I mentioned it anywhere, but Tulinsuojat was a result of that tripartite weave and it is shockingly resistant to change–I tried to encourage a specific kind of Almachadtan flower to grow there and it refused. That Tenebrous and Radiant seem to govern behavior seems like it might point toward Song?

What do you mean regarding Liminal, Aury? I think Wolf’s read is very different from my own experience—to me, Liminal is very active. It’s striving to change the way things are for something only barely possible. Is yours similar, or is it different again?

Of course, I wonder how much our personal relationships with gnosis reveal anything inherent about that gnosis type more generally? Shocking that I’d say this, but it seems subjective.

Well, yeah, most categorizations of things like that tend to be pretty off the cuff gut instinct. Not like emotions are the most consistent thing in the world.

But yeah, liminal’s close to that for me, as well. ‘this thing/result exists somewhere, and i am actively choosing not to care about how to get from A to B so hard that we skip that step entirely.’, if that makes any sense.

Yeah that makes a lot of sense to me. I’m curious what Wolf thinks.

I would say that my experience was similar, albeit from a different…lens? Angle? It was…letting go of my preconceptions. Letting go of what “had to be so.” It is…a difficult thing to put words to. “Allowing the world to exist in undefined configurations”? …no, that’s not right…

Look at it: nothing to see. Call it colorless. Listen to it: nothing to hear. Call it soundless. Reach for it: nothing to hold. Call it intangible.

Triply undifferentiated, it merges into oneness, not bright above, not dark below.

Never, oh! never can it be named. It reverts, it returns to unbeing. Call it the form of the unformed the image of no image.

Call it unthinkable thought. Face it: no face. Follow it: no end.

Holding fast to the old Way, we can live in the present. Mindful of the ancient beginnings, we hold the thread of the Tao.

Ah. Yes. Like that.

The Tao?

I have not yet had time to properly experiement, however, from my tests with the irrica triad of gnosis (Archie can corroborate, and was most helpful) - the result of combining two types of gnosis together is wholly dependent on the second type added. Flourishign + Pellucid was crystal. Burning + Pelludic was also crystal. I will report back on my fidnings soon.

A synonym, in many ways, for “the Way.” A concept of some popularity amongst my people–one would summarize it (inexpertly) as…the most correct course of action being that which arises naturally from the interaction of the world’s forces, which is often “interrupted” or “blocked” by human categorization and “striving.” Forgive me–it was not a philosophy I much favored, in that life, and I am not well fit to describe it. Hikaru would have done a better job than I. It does not help that the Way, the Tao, is explicitly described as being beyond description or categorization. To quote the opening of “The Way and its Virtue,” our main text regarding the Tao:

“The way you can go isn’t the real way. The name you can say isn’t the real name.

Heaven and earth begin in the unnamed: name’s the mother of the ten thousand things.

So the unwanting soul sees what’s hidden, and the ever-wanting soul sees only what it wants

Two things, one origin, but different in name, whose identity is a mystery. Mystery of all mysteries! The door to the hidden.”

…one does admit that it seems to describe “liminality” as well as one can describe the indescribable in words.

I plan on messaging Caion specifically. He’s going to be very ecxzited. As predicted, Radiant gnosis resisted joining a weave with Burning. I believe that for someone more skilled in the art, it could be overocme. Alas, I am not a master weaver nor a master scienitst. When infused after Tenebrous gnosis, Radiant gnosis resulted in a Pearl. Like a from Samudra Pearl. Which, I feel foolish for not having predicted, since previous results of fusion yielfed Aurichalcum and Crystal. The many-stone and Rakaznar seem to be different int hat they do not form any beings that we know of. Perhaps Valais will teach us different.

Okay, this is fascinating and I’m going to write this up for the library but also I have some rocks for your to eat, Luĉja (and do experiments on). But I think you’ll want to eat at least one.

Wait, Luĉja, can you clarify?

We know flourishing + burning + pellucid = irrica. Within that:

[flourishing/burning] + pellucid = crystal
[flourishing/pellucid] + burning = [uncertain?]
[pellucid/burning] + flourishing = [uncertain?]

Any of the three resulting substances + the third gnosis = irrica

Then, radiant + tenebrous + liminal = [a strange substance I encountered this morning within the caves; I have some samples for you all]

[radiant/(perhaps other things?)] + tenebrous = rakaznar
[tenebrous/(perhaps other things?)] + radiant = pearl
[(radiant/tenebrous/maybe something else?)] + liminal = (uncertain?)

Theoretically, an infusion of the missing gnosis into rakaznar or a pearl would yield this … strange substance?

Did I miss anything?

I could use a snack. I did try the stew - quite tasty if you haven’t had any.

In order to represent more consicely, allow the letter “i” to mean “one of the irrica triad (unspecified).

i + pellucid = crystal i + burning = aurichalcum i + flourishing = A substance that I have no name for. It is one rock, yet many rocks. It is sand and stone all at once and neither.

Any of the above will create irrica when the missing gnosis is added.

Similarly, “v” will be one of the tenebrous, radiant, or liminal gnoses.

v + tenebrous = rakaznar v + radiant = pearl v + liminal = ???

and you appear to have the triad sample. Note: I have not attempted to use liminal as a base, and then add tenebrous or radiant. I am ill-prepared to do so until we return to The Road, and even then, I would likely require Archie’s or Awoken’s assistance.

The next question is can you cross gnoses from i and v with similar results? And can irrica and the v-compound be combined?