Ancient Names

I think I may have … hm. This is an informed guess, but it is just a guess, but I think we might be hitting upon the names the Ancients used for our various planes. I was wondering if people (especially the Samudrans in the audience) could advise?

Alsos: “The Grove” or a “Sacred Grove.” See further discussion here. Seems very likely to be Almachadta?

Teratourgeion: I’m not sure what this means, but it was used to refer to Luĉja. A translation would be helpful here.

Are there any other names for Samudra that anyone knows of?

Well, in terms of the Ancient language, those are both– attested terms, at any rate.

Your translation of ‘sacred grove’ for Alsos is accurate to our understanding, and– hmm. Makes me think of something the noöplankton return to again and again. They have mentioned a grove. One wonders.

As far as ‘teratourgeion’, I’d venture… miracle-works? monster factory? It’s hard to translate into one word that carries all of the correct connotations.

Why would the Ancient world have had words for the Beast and Almachadta? (And what was their word for Samudra? I’d offer myself as a guinea pig here if I could.)

Alsos had a secondary meaning of “sanctuary” when I discussed it with the Pearl who specialized in such things. Is there a similar meaning in ‘teratourgeion’?

“Miracle” and “monster” both make sense I think? Is it like our term “awe” means something terrible and something sublime at the same time?

And that … is an interesting point about why the ancients had such words. Was there a grove and a miracle-works on the unsundered world? Did our planes exist as aspects in that ancient world?

I’ll try to pin down Archie as a guinea pig once I figure out if there’s any value in casting the Rite.

Well, keep in mind we found an entire city under the ice. And we know Zosimos was out there doing… whatever he was doing. It’s not unreasonable to think a handful of other “ancients” might have survived whatever sundered the world and developed Old Words for new places before new words replaced them…? Alternatively, the Architect mentioned the planes were not unlike experiments, yes? Perhaps based on previously existing models or thought experiments. (thought experiments… heh wonder if that has a different connotation on Samudra)

Oh good point. Also can you imagine our current system being something like the third or fourth draft? I wonder if there were other models and what they looked like?

Though counterpoint: The stars themselves use the language of the ancients; that’s where I was called Salme tou Alsos. How and why would the constellations know newly-coined words.

Though shit, why are there commonalities at all. Hm unless the Duelist’s Mask was relying on the words available within the Mask itself.

“New Words”, in this case, being the language we currently use, as well as the names we know the planes by (ie Almachadta, Samudra). (It’s very strange that we know the names of our planes if you ever stop and think about it too hard)

As for the Duelist’s Mask itself… well, given the hundreds upon hundreds of years it spent observing your locales and conversing with its wielders, it’s be far more strange if it hadn’t picked up our language at some point.

Ah I meant “newly-coined terms in the language of the Ancients” not our language. If the constellation had just used my language I don’t think it’d be weird?

Though Light, I’m not actually sure how much the Mask and the constellation are in conversation with each other. I could maybe try to speak to it again?

Two more for you, Caion.

tou Asilos

tou Philaisia

Also, synomote, which I suppose is actually three.

…And, I suppose, does “gestalt” have any particular meaning to you, though I already know what it meant within the given context.

Hmm. “asilos” looks like a derivation of the Ancient word for haven or refuge. I don’t have a good, clear definition for “philaisia”, though. Love or apprecation of… something, I’m just not sure what. I’ll do some research.

‘synomote’ is attested, very loosely, as a term for… co-conspirators in a plot.

Just what have you all been getting up to over there? Ought I be concerned?

(This last is in jest, to be clear. Hoping you’re all doing quite well!)

As far as ‘gestalt’, I think I’ve mentioned this before actually at some point, but it’s the word we use here for what Pearls are - a whole greater than the sum of its parts, an organised and perpetuating pattern comprised of what had previously been distinct elements.

Okay so. You know Alethic Rites, right? Of course you don’t. Well, there’s a library entry on how to access them now you may want to refer to before coming back here.

All good? Okay. So we decided to cast libra on ourselves, for science. (Me, Salme and Awa.) ‘Aurelius tou Asilos’ and ‘??? tou Philaisia’, to go along with ‘Salme tou Alsos’ and uh… whatever Lucja’s was.

Oh, huh. I hadn’t realized you used that word for Pearls as well, though I suppose it does make sense.

Would … “sanctuary” be a reasonable translation of “asilos”?

I was referred to as a “beloved synomote” of. Two people. What an interesting choice of words?

Wasn’t Sanctuary a translation of Alsos already…?

I think… to me, at least, and I’m not an expert so take this with a grain of salt. But to me, ‘sanctuary’ and ‘asilon’ seems like a much cleaner translation. ‘alsos’ could be a sanctuary, the… same way that Salme’s island could be considered a sanctuary, I think, but it’s not its primary meaning, whereas ‘asilon’– there’s a theory that the Ancient language inflected and influenced our own in key ways, and ‘asilon’ is one of the words where you can see it clearly, if you look at ‘asilon’ next to our word ‘asylum’, in the sense of a place of safety and protection.

Feel like language would be a lot easier if worlds couldn’t have multiple meanings for no damned reason.

That’s the fucking truth.

Yeah, the Samudran scholar that gave me the translation of “Alsos” said it was a tertiary definition at best.

This is kind of a longshot, but is there any word in Ancient that might sound like “hero” but mean something closer to “dreamer” or … some sense of someone who carries forth memories of the past?

Nothing comes to mind immediately, but I’ll ask some associates who’ve a deeper understanding and familiarity with the Ancient language. What are you chasing down, if I may ask?

Duškomira mentioned that there used to be a word for people who dreamed like Wolf does and the Irós do. It’s a word that Jae apparently heard as “hero.” I’m not trying to relitigate the past but I was hoping uncovering the term might reveal more about the dreams.

Also I need to point Wolf to this discussion; I was just hoping for something more substantial first.

I can’t be the first one to have drawn a line between the pronunciation of ‘yeresh’, ‘irós’, and ‘hero’ at this point, right? It certainly does make my ‘Ancient basis for the term’ whiskers tingle. I’ll ring my fancy Academician’s bell that summons the relevant expert as soon as I can find it under all the memory crystals piled on my desk to review.

Caion I … do suspect you were the first person to notice that. Maybe Wolf might’ve had he read this first but I certaintly didn’t.

Oh. Well. The line’s been drawn, then, I suppose? It feels plausible to me, at least, that all three of those words derive from an ancestral, forgotten term, probably in the Ancient tongue, is all.

Oh I absolutely suspect you’re right. I was mostly poking fun at your assuming your ability to make brilliant connections was a given. Apologies if it seemed otherwise.

Please ring that fancy bell as soon as possible I’m deeply excited myself.

The other word was “jernos” by the way, Caion. Your theory is looking more and more likely I think.

…What does being a “Hero” have to do with seeing visions from time displaced…? That’s generally a trait attached to Oracles or Sage, not… Heroes. Hm

I don’t think it does. Those three words: yeresh, jernos, and irós, I think all point to a common word in Ancient that perhaps sounds a lot like “Hero” but isn’t the same term. My initial thought was to simply recover the jernos term, but (thanks to Jae, who helpfully just told me) now I’m following Caion’s thread about the terms all sounding similar and sharing a common ancient root.